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PSA for anyone with a vics manifold and a mS2e from Rev:
Drove car last night to tune. Its running hella rich and does not feel fast at all and not building more than a few psi of boost in low gears. In 6th gear going 60 on the highway I could floor it and the car would not accelerate and anytime I hit about 5500 rpms it bogs hard. Tunerstudio is pulling *** loads of fuel. I assumed my 02 sensor was bad or way out of calibration.
Today I remember having this same issue when I first installed the ecu and rev told me that his ecu will not play nice with the VTCS manifold. I can't remember if this was MSM specific or not. Anyway I unplugged the VTCS solenoid and the car instantly comes back to life. Tuning is commencing. Hopefully VD plots will be posted in the coming days.
Just a couple of thoughts, but lots of idling time with the oil issue might have glopped up the IAT.
Also, I think somebody already mentioned this, but have you cleaned the oil out of the IC?
I'm sure any residue is playing havoc with your sensors.
I read every page of the build!
Can't wait for you to get the car dialed!
Props for a great build!
Just a couple of thoughts, but lots of idling time with the oil issue might have glopped up the IAT.
Also, I think somebody already mentioned this, but have you cleaned the oil out of the IC?
I'm sure any residue is playing havoc with your sensors.
I read every page of the build!
Can't wait for you to get the car dialed!
Props for a great build!
I completely cleaned the intercooler pipes out a few times. Car seems to be running mostly fine but I'm burning oil off idle (evidenced by a little white smoke when pulling away from a light). I am getting crankcase pressure somehow which is causing some oil to still come out of the turbo. This is happening much slower than before but it's still happening. I am fairly positive my valve seals are leaking and when I go under boost it creates crankcase pressure which limits the turbo's ability to drain.
Clean pipes, but were you able to clean out the IC itself?
Oil will sit in every crevice it can find, but generally drops right to the bottom of the IC.
The engine slowly vacuums it up.
Might as well be optimistic
It might be valve seals, but I would not be in a hurry to blame the supertech parts.
Lots of guys running that stuff.
A buddy of mine was having similar issues...Turns out he set the bronze guides too high...
I'm not even sure if that is doable on a BP.
With the slight restriction I suppose it is possible you may have damaged the turbo seals.
Would be nice to have another turbo to bolt on to test. Any turbo that would fit to eliminate that variable.
Clean pipes, but were you able to clean out the IC itself?
Oil will sit in every crevice it can find, but generally drops right to the bottom of the IC.
The engine slowly vacuums it up.
Might as well be optimistic
It might be valve seals, but I would not be in a hurry to blame the supertech parts.
Lots of guys running that stuff.
A buddy of mine was having similar issues...Turns out he set the bronze guides too high...
I'm not even sure if that is doable on a BP.
With the slight restriction I suppose it is possible you may have damaged the turbo seals.
Would be nice to have another turbo to bolt on to test. Any turbo that would fit to eliminate that variable.
Lotus seats look great!
Intercooler was removed, filled with brake clean, and then dumped on it's side to drain and dry every time I cleaned the pipes. I have seen quite a few people have issues with non-oem valve seals leaking quite regularly on new builds here so I am inclined to blame that part as it is showing signs of that part failing. I am willing to accept that there may be some other issue but seeing as how I already had one of my supertech valve seals replaced due to failure I wouldn't be very surprised if they were the culprit. I will of course have the head looked over during this process to see if anything else appears out of place.
It is also almost never the turbo seals unless there is notable shaft play. My turbo shaft is rock solid and has absolutely no play. The turbo was also inspected by a BW master distributor who does warranty work. They performed comprehensive testing and provided me with a long report with pictures and results. The turbo was completely fine with no signs of wear or failure. This issue is almost always a bad drain or crank case pressure. I fixed the drain issue. Now I am betting that there is crank case pressure. Currently the only thing that makes sense is something with the head. The most likely culprit is the valve seals.
I am open to alternative theories if anyone has them.
I also figured out why I am hitting boost cut even without my boost solenoid activated. I am referencing the wrong port on the EWG like a dumbass. It came with the nipple attached on the top and the bottom plugged. I just looked at turbosmart's diagrams online and at pictures of my engine bay and realised my error. That is an easy fix at least.
Clean pipes, but were you able to clean out the IC itself?
Oil will sit in every crevice it can find, but generally drops right to the bottom of the IC.
The engine slowly vacuums it up.
Might as well be optimistic
It might be valve seals, but I would not be in a hurry to blame the supertech parts.
Lots of guys running that stuff.
A buddy of mine was having similar issues...Turns out he set the bronze guides too high...
I'm not even sure if that is doable on a BP.
With the slight restriction I suppose it is possible you may have damaged the turbo seals.
Would be nice to have another turbo to bolt on to test. Any turbo that would fit to eliminate that variable.
Lotus seats look great!
I ran mazda and fel pro seals, never leaked. Ran supertechs and they failed in a few months. Changed them, they failed again in a few months. Then put mazda seals in, and problem free again. I think supertech seals suck. The exhaust seals dumped oil, and the intakes leaked quite a bit. With very little mileage. I could see exhaust leaking from heat or abuse, but intake seals leaking is crazy.
I also figured out why I am hitting boost cu...wrong port on the EWG...
Are you using both (top/bottom) ports on your WG? How did you route your reference hoses to the solenoid and WG? I just set mine up and have yet to run on it but went with this on a 3-port solenoid (per turbosmart where pressure only source is IC pipe pre TB):
I am only using a single port from my efr solenoid. It should be hooked up to the bottom port of the wastegate like so:
I currently have my line referencing off of the vent port like an idiot. If my understanding is correct this will allow the boost pressure from the solenoid to keep the wastegate closed instead of assisting in opening the spring. If my understanding here is incorrect I would love to be educated.
Should I be setting it up as you have it above? my understanding from the EFR manual was that this was to be setup as show above. I just put the hose in the wrong port.
I don't know. I've spent way to much time researching for definitive answers on pro/cons/scenarios and not trying anything. I ran my prior setup as you did with both an MBC and EBC - but it was an internal WG with a helper spring (since it was only single port). But that arrangement isolated the actuator from the full boost signal pressure and dramatically reduced the boost leak from the gate cracking open early. In theory the top port allows boost pressure to work with the spring and keep the gate shut during boost rise. Then the solenoid "bleeds" top port pressure, removing the "help" and the bottom port pressure overcomes the spring. Of course it's contrary to isolating the bottom port from the boost signal until the EBC steps in and modulates the solenoid. I showed the "alternate 3-port" arrangement because it does isolate the top port. It makes the most sense to me, use your bled signal pressure to hold the gate closed until you need it, then divert it to the top.
fwiw - I'm using the Innovate SCG-1 and it shows signal routing with the EBC solenoid the same as you have done. Maybe somebody will speak up. If not, maybe a new thread is deserving.
I just had the same issue with oil from the crank-case ventilation, coating my intercooler, intake pipes, and filling a catch can.
I have the stainless-steel wool/copper wool trick in my valve cover as well.
My issue came from the fact the stainless steel wool I was using was too fine and wasn't allowing air to go through, and pressure would build up a bit.
I stretched the wool so it'd be "mostly" in the way of the air flow instead of blocking it.
I just had the same issue with oil from the crank-case ventilation, coating my intercooler, intake pipes, and filling a catch can.
I have the stainless-steel wool/copper wool trick in my valve cover as well.
My issue came from the fact the stainless steel wool I was using was too fine and wasn't allowing air to go through, and pressure would build up a bit.
I stretched the wool so it'd be "mostly" in the way of the air flow instead of blocking it.
Worked like a charm.
Don't know if this'll help, but I hope so.
PS, Nice Build!
I think I am going to need to try this now. I just increased my drain size to 3/4" off the drain with a 1/2 NPT to 3/4" straight hos barb. The drain is DEFINITELY not the issue now. I was over at sixshooter's this weekend and it was still puking oil which was super frustrating. We blew into the breather tubes on my car and his to compare resistance but didn't notice a difference as we suspected that this might be the issue. I am guessing that we could not produce enough flow with our lungs to identify a restriction. I am going to open it back up and either stretch the copper out to make it better or remove it all together for now just to be sure if that is the issue or not. I can always experiment with putting them back in later and try out a more breathable configuration.
On a positive note, we got my AC back in and blowing ice cold. The car is 1000 times more bearable to drive now in the Florida heat. I am hoping I can solve the oil issue with the removal of the copper scrubs so I can take the car to MATG as planned.
This could be possible but it was tested extensively by Southeast Power systems while under warranty for the same issue and they said everything was normal. They also provided me with a lengthy report that included pictures and the detailed data from the testing. Everything on the internet is telling me that with no shaft play it is almost certain to be the drain or crank case pressure. I will check the easy stuff prior to MATG. If that doesn't solve it then I will take the turbo to Southeast Power Systems once against to look over.
I hope you get this figured out soon man. It must be super frustrating...
It really is frustrating. I have considered selling the car on more than one occasion. I was able to quickly disassemble the valve cover and remove the copper scrubbies last night. It's all back together but I need to clean out the pipes and the turbo so I can tell if there is fresh oil and not just residual from the pool that I am sure is sitting in the chra.
Tonight I do that and change the oil. Planning to put something thicker in than Rotella t6 and see if that helps as well. Once it stops spewing oil I have some Shaeffer race oil to put in which is also thicker than t6. Holds up much better to heat and has higher film strength.
If you get it cleaned and test driven tonight and it still makes oil you can get it to Southeast tomorrow morning and possibly still get it fixed if it's the turbo. It can be done. Fingers crossed that it is good tonight, though.
If you get it cleaned and test driven tonight and it still makes oil you can get it to Southeast tomorrow morning and possibly still get it fixed if it's the turbo. It can be done. Fingers crossed that it is good tonight, though.
I'm not sure I'll have time to bring it to Southeast or that they would be able to diagnose and resolve the issue with that short of notice. You don't rebuilt these turbos. You buy a new supercore.
How about instead of an air filter you put a 90 degree elbow downward and a pipe down into a bucket to catch all of the oil, haha! Then you can pour it back into the engine every time you stop for gas. I just can't believe it is still messing up. This drain and breather arrangement has to fix it. Or you need to add a restrictor to the oil feed.
05-08-2017, 06:37 AM
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I ran my prior setup as you did with both an MBC and EBC - but it was an internal WG with a helper spring (since it was only single port). But that arrangement isolated the actuator from the full boost signal pressure and dramatically reduced the boost leak from the gate cracking open early. In theory the top port allows boost pressure to work with the spring and keep the gate shut during boost rise. Then the solenoid "bleeds" top port pressure, removing the "help" and the bottom port pressure overcomes the spring. Of course it's contrary to isolating the bottom port from the boost signal until the EBC steps in and modulates the solenoid. I showed the "alternate 3-port" arrangement because it does isolate the top port. It makes the most sense to me, use your bled signal pressure to hold the gate closed until you need it, then divert it to the top.
