Perfect time to cancel your order.

Can you please explain why the smaller fuel return would cause fluctuations?

This is my guess:

Think of it as a garden hose with four even leaks in it. Those leaks are your "injectors", and the open end is the "return line". If you restrict the open end of the hose, more pressure goes through the leaks. If it's free flowing, they stay constant.

So, my guess is, under different fuel loads, the return line is sometimes a restriction, but sometimes it's not.

How wrong am I?

If this was the case, then the return line should be bigger.

it probably should, so it doesn't build pressure.

first track day was a success.

Shenandoah circuit is absolutely insane and I loved it. Nothing broke except YET ANOTHER COP. It started misfiring a little bit under load. I had a spare - swapped it in and everything was gravy.

Oil temp never went above 200-210F. 80F+ ambient. At about 10psi. I don't think that's normal....? But it's a pretty tight track.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8020/7...9884ad4e_k.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net...598_o.jpg?dl=1

Brakes were good. Power was good. Tires were awesome.

Time to upgrade to LS coils it seems like.

Yeah COPs suck. LS coils comig soon. I also have oil in my intake manifold, so catch can is long overdue.

Ay least nothing melted and my crank pulley stayed put :D

I will get you the part number for the ls2 coils I am using. Then go spend $150 at FM for their bracket and spark plug wires. It is well worth the money for the FM parts and makes things much cleaner.

Check my build thread later in the week for my new catch can setup. Hopefully it will be the last time I ever fuxor with it.

Have you checked your spark output circuit? Could that somehow be damaging your COPs? I've never heard of them blowing so often. Once in a while, yes, but not like this. Surely if a new one blew every 1000 miles (has it even been that long?) People like Sav, myself, Hustler, and all the other turbo track junkies running them would be having issues.

He is using the spark outputs on the MS3X, so I highly doubt it is the spark output circuit.

I was thinking of getting coils from a junkyard, making my own bracket (with a bending brake) and wires.. not sure. I don't see the coil bracket on FM site, do I have to call them? $150 for bracket and wires sounds cheap by FM standards.


I ran on exact same COP/ECU setup for like 12k miles while N/A. I just started using MS3. In the COPs defense, the ones that died are the original ones I bought used ages ago. The new replacement ones are all going strong. In total, 3 of them died (so right now I'm running on 1 "original" and 3 replacements).

Coils are $22 new here on ebay, there is absolutely no reason to buy used ones. The bracket and wires are not listed on the FM site. You need to call to order them. The bracket is about $45 and the wires are around $90. You can also buy the pigtails on ebay, or you could ask FM how much they are from them. When you call FM ask for Brandon, he was extremely helpful with all my questions and then ordering.

Thts not the ballerest ls coil lars

Also fms kit is gay. Having to do a ss braid line for vvt oil feed is stupid.

Soviet does not have VVT so that point does not matter to him. Also I could care less about "ballerest" ls coils. The ones that are good enough on a vette are more then good enough on the miata.

I don't see the logic in "good enough for a corvette". It's a lot easier to spark @ 100kPa than 300kPa. Skim over this thread -> http://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-ind...ations-fi.html

The ballerest coils aren't much more expenisve, anyways - http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-IGNITION...ht_3179wt_1396

And you can get 8 of them for $160
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Ignition...#ht_500wt_1396

I'm still probably going to go the junkyard route, because that's how I roll. Also with my COPs - only one coil genuinely died. Like, not firing at idle dead. The other two just started misfiring under load. I think more dwell could make them work. I have it set to 2.2ms in TunerStudio.

many boosted applications use standard run-of-the-mill cops. subarus and evos, all the way up to 30psi. if yours are dying they're either crappy/old or you're destroying them some how.

I don't see the point in re-inventing the wheel when it works for everyone else.

leaning towards crappy/old. do subarus/evos also use wasted spark?

Wrong. Do the math.

Vette makes aroud 60hp/L on more cylinders.

Soviet makes around 200hp/L on fewer cylinders.

That means there is WAY more fuel in soviets cylinder vs vette cylinder.

Hence, sovient needs more spark than a vette

I highly doubt the junkyard will be cheaper then new. Every yard I checked at were quoting me more then the cost of new ones. Then you factor in the amount of time you have to spend driving there and then searching around for the coils.

I have used both the truck ls coils and the ones from the vette. I have had less problems with the ones from the vette at up the 17psi.

Hmm, it's true, I looked a the price list and igniters are @ $24 a piece :jerkit:
I could still try and see if I can convince them that the whole coil assembly is 1 pack... Anyways I need to go to a junkyard for a lot of random stuff, so it's one of the things I have to look out for.

edit: I also want to get a built VVT head. I want to have a built, ported head and it just doesn't make sense to build anything other than VVT.

If you feed through a -10 line at 60psi of fuel pressure (example), you will move a certain amount of fuel. At idle, you need some insignificant amount of fuel, so the vast majority (~97% of the fuel) has to get run back through the return line and to the tank. Since your return is smaller than the feed, the pressure in the return line is higher than the pressure in the feed line. If the pressure in the return line goes above the FPR pressure, your FPR is no longer dictating fuel pressure, and the AFRs will go rich. As soon as you touch the throttle, the car uses more fuel, there's less fuel in the return line, and the fuel pressure drops. When the car is hot idling and needs less fuel, the fuel pressure will rise and richen the car.

You will NEVER get that car to idle properly unless you have an ECU that has incredibly high resolution fuel pressure trims.

Best case is a return that's larger. Since the injectors always use some fuel, using the same size feed and return is fine too. Smaller return than feed is an awful idea.

still a bad way of looking at it. what you wanna see is the how many mJs it can store, the voltages it can output, and the gap it can produce.

this is how you compare coils:

https://www.miataturbo.net/showpost....1&postcount=29

I ordered the LS truck coils.

The coils:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/320907536103?item=320907536103

The wires:

All that remains would be making a bracket and wiring in the harness. The wires are 12" which SHOULD fit nicely.

So for $191 I basically got 2 sets of coils :giggle:

You do know that those wires probably will not fit into the VC holes correctly. They will not seal the top and allow water in. You can order custom made magnecore wires for about $90. They have a lifetime warranty and will actually fit correctly. I would cancel the amazon order and shell out the extra few dollars for good wires.

Are we still going half or did you side with Min?

This is the thread where i tell shuiend hes wrong with crap punctuoation and spellif

Wrong.

You can just buy ibdividual booties feom magnecoer or whomeve. Bootie just salides onto tge wire.

This is the part where Lars tells Min he has a running car...

No, I have 2 running miatas.

and a truck.

Wut

I am correct. Vette has less fuel in every ifnition event than any of our boosted cars. Therefore spark reuirement is lower. .

What's the correct plug end for Magnecor wires?

http://www.magnecor.com/magnecor1/files/catalog.pdf

I texhnicyl have

Two running miatas

One sounds like it has a fork stuck in farbage disposal

And a truck :) tht is called WUBYWU

Gove magnecoe a call. They are very nice and helpful and will prob b able to tell u what bootie u need and sell it for chezarp

I guess I will. But after I make my bracket since I have no idea how long the wires will need to be.

Yeah I would say cancel the order from amazon for plug wires. Then once you have a bracket made and can measure the lengths of the wires, call up Magnecore. Tell them the part number for the LS coil you have, then you tell them it is going into a miata head, and then give them the lengths for each one. They will custom build them with both ends that will fit perfectly. Prices range from $90 and up depending on the length of the wires. I will assume that you won't be ordering very long wires so price should be right around $90. They said they generally get them built and shipped within a day or two. It might be slightly more then building them all yourself, but the fact that they are done correctly, and come with a lifetime warranty is worth the extra few dollars.

Also let me know when you get your coils in, I will prob want to borrow a set briefly so I can test fitment with the FM Brackets.

I have never once had a problem or seen a problem with an aluminum line. Never had a problem flaring one either.

oo o o o

OR YOU CAN BUY THE USED WIRES AND JUST BUY BOOTIES. and no the bracket wont fit. These coils are fatties.

dyno shop put video up


my car is... so quiet

I do not see any fireballs shooting out the back. I am disappointed.

he lifted before the limiter because NA tach is awesome and reads 7200rpm as 7800. Last run was with 2' of fire but no vidya.

I actually just went there again. Brought in my valve cover for welding. -12AN bung driver side, weld shut passenger side, $60 and should be done today :party:

I am so not a fan of welding shut the passenger passage.

I can always put another -12AN there if I have excessive oil.

Like I wanna start seeing swiss-cheesed valve covers...while stupid, yes, at lesat I know you guys are headed in the right direction.

Nice video. You have a nice street car Leonid, just needs more conditioned air :party:

Stupid, stupid, stupid idea. I am having my VC welded up and I am getting 2 -10an fittings on the driver side and 1 -10an fitting on the passenger side. I am also getting new baffle plates welded in like the picture in my build thread.

right direction.


:party:

My -12AN line is about 50% bigger than -10AN line. I think I'll live.

In any case, this is a free valve cover. I have 2 more.

I want to see your baffle plates, though. Didn't see any pictures in your thread...

That is a picture of how I am having my baffles done. I need to call the shop and see if they are actually done with my VC. As soon as i have it back I will be posting pictures for sure.
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1337797492

Ok, so you're not going to run the stock baffles?

I got my VC back already and they welded the -12AN bung from the inside. Because of that, the stock baffle "edge" is now missing a piece. I could probably seal it up with RTV just fine but not sure what to do.

Suggestions? Could also go back and ask them to "fill" that spot up and grind it back to same height as edges around.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1337797799

I am not planning on running the stock baffles. I am actually going to be heading up to the shop in a little bit to talk to them about it more. The welder is not sure how exactly he is going to do it.

I would at a minimum have them add in welds and grind down. I do not think you could get that to seal now even with lots of RTV.

.75" is not 50% larger than .625"

it's 17% larger.

of flow area is .4415 sq in" vs .3066 sq in which is still only 30% larger :)

your math logic is wrong and you should be ashamed :vash:

flow area of -12AN is 44% larger than -10AN
flow area of -10AN is 30% smaller than -12AN

0.4415/0.3066 = 1.44
0.3066/0.4415 = 0.69

In layman terms, a single -12AN is like one-and-a-half -10AN fittings.

Whatever it is I still do not think it is enough flow. At least not all on one side. I will get pics a bit later from the welding shop.

I feel like I should do that. But then wouldn't that hole actually kind of allow more evacuation (which is what I want)?

I think I'll try it as-is and see if it fails.

not really, im an art student. but i will conceed.

Lars prepare to weep tears of joy for I shall type this like I know the meaning of a shift key.


OK my opinion is as follows.

The mini baffles Lars posted are ideal. I think that the factory baffles will have higher pressure because of all the baffling. Swiss cheese valve covers are also ideal. Honda/Evo/DSM boost R&D has proven that.

Lenny, if you go with the single -12, I think you will be OK. If you are going to use the factory baffle though, make sure you:

a) drill out the tiny hole

b) make sure the baffle plate seals flushly to the baffle. That means yes, that weld goober needs to be filled and ground down. And yes, seal the plate with RTV and make sure you let it dry before you run the car.

The only reason why I am not running a -12 on BOTH sides of my valve cover is because I am using the slashcut. It would be a real bitch to run the -12 line from the passenger side as well. There just isn't that much room and a -12 line is recalcitrant.

Brain I was an art major too. Then I failed out of college.

valve cover take 2. now with more sexy.
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1337887128

I tried to cancel the ignition wire order but was too late and it arrived today.
1) just as Lars said, they go all the way in but don't sit tight in the hole
2) 12" is pretty long. 8-10" would be a good size if coils sit above the fuel rail

Coil/stock bracket/wiring will arrive Friday so I'll probably ghetto-wire it and plan my bracket. I want to keep all wires same length and re-use as much of the stock bracket as possible.

did they fill it for you or is that jb weld or just sanded down?

They filled it and grinded it for me for free. in like, 2 hours after I brought it in.
I don't have any JBWeld on my car and I plan on keeping it that way.