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In Soviet Russia car build YOU!
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Hi guys! I'm getting pretty close to having my car turbo'ed so I figured a build thread is in order.
All the images are clickable for 3000x2000 glory I have a red 91... actually, I have two red 91s. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1320644937 The left one I got for $500 about 2 months ago. It's a 180k mile with a MAACO repaint and a few small rust spots. The right one has been my daily driver for the last year, and is the car in my signature. It's a 145k mile 91 with an ebay jdm 94 engine and a 96 brakes and rear end. The 96 parts came from my first Miata that I've totalled about a year ago. It's has a horribly rusty chassis (but straight!) and the worst paint in the world. The plan is to get the turbo running on my daily, then swap it all on the "new" $500 car, and junk the old chassis since it's beyond repair. Turbo parts:
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1320644937 Supporting mods (all done!):
Clutch will be an ACT 6-puck with a Fidanza flywheel, once Faeflora lets me rip it out of his car. Some recent things I've done:
Flipped the hard line that goes from radiator to water pump mixing manifold to make room for bottom mount https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1320644937 Installed and wired a 99 throttle body. For 2 reasons. 1) Both TPS and IAC connectors on the side so they don't interfere with the intercooler piping elbow. 2) There is no separate hose for IAC so you don't need to have any extra fittings in the piping. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1320644937 What I'm missing and still need to do in order to get the car running:
Stock wastegate spring is like 6 or 7 psi... once I have the clutch I'll add in EBC and run MOAR BOOST. |
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This whole build is made mostly out of used parts.
Turbo, manifold, downpipe, oil drain & water lines - $500 Intercooler and all 2.5" piping - $90 MS2 95% built + misc parts to complete it - $200 Injectors + cleaning - $150 + around $100 for cleaning I think COPs - like $90? + DIY bracket In the last week or two I bought a lot of new parts to actually complete the build - 2" piping and couplers, 90* elbows, 10.9 and grade 8 hardware, alumimum stock for IC bracket and wastegate bracket, boost gauge etc... but it's all been pretty cheap. Here's my intercooler piping. Hopefully this will be useful to someone piecing together a piece. Cold side is 2" and hot side is 2.5" https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1320644950 Hot side:
Cold side:
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1320644950 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1320644950 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1320644950 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1320644950 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1320644950 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1320644950 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1320644950 Intercooler bracket is 3" x 3" x 3ft alumium bracket with some alumium strips. I used 3/16" thick and it's MASSIVE OVERKILL. I will trim the bracket to not block airflow, obviously... and might add another angle to the top part. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1320644950 |
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Some pictures of my $500 chassis that will house all the go-fast parts by spring:
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1320644963 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1320644963 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1320644963 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1320644963 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1320644963 |
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Poor man's EGR plug for 99-00 manifold. BEGI charges $27.50 for this plug. Or you can use a Doorman 090055 oil drain plug for less than $3....
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1320645166 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1320645166 It doesn't fit all the way in so I might cut off a few mm to make it a flush fit. But probably not nessesary. |
Could also use washers to snug up the egr plug? Hmm since it's exposed to exhaust stream though i'd want it to be sturdy snug.
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I could torque it to like 100ft/lbs as is. The only difference in trimming it or using washers would be aesthetics.
Anyways, we'll see how it works out. I just did NOT want to pay $30 for a fucking bolt. |
Looks like a great start to your build. I ran a drain plug like that in a manifold for over two years on my last Talon and never had any issues with it backing out or anything else. I used a copper crush washer between the plug and the manifold and torqued the shit out of it.
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Just as a heads up, we have found that placing the IAT sensor in the manifold/plenum area will get you a more true temp reading. Possibly a thought rather than in the intercooler.
-Sam |
By accurate you mean exaggerated heat soaked readings?
I'd hope there wasn't a temperate big difference between the IC and valves. But, in serious, we've found if the sensor is inside the bay, it suffers from horrid heatsoak at idle and after shutdown that causes all sorts of idling/starting issues when using an aftermarket ECU. |
Maaco paint job looks pretty good, does it look as nice in person? Single stage paint?
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Originally Posted by soviet
(Post 792855)
Poor man's EGR plug for 99-00 manifold. BEGI charges $27.50 for this plug.
What the shit. |
Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 793051)
But, in serious, we've found if the sensor is inside the bay, it suffers from horrid heatsoak at idle and after shutdown that causes all sorts of idling/starting issues when using an aftermarket ECU.
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Bottom line: coldside intercooler tank = easy way of ensuring correct ait readings. Or somewhere in that area.
DEFINITELY not the manifold though. Any other trickery is just not worth it since the "correct" placement is so easy to pull of. |
Originally Posted by 18psi
(Post 793185)
Bottom line: coldside intercooler tank = easy way of ensuring correct ait readings. Or somewhere in that area.
DEFINITELY not the manifold though. Any other trickery is just not worth it since the "correct" placement is so easy to pull of. |
Yeah I'm tapping the end tank for e-z mode. Keep in mind this setup will be on the car for 2-3 weeks tops before I strip the car apart and rebuild it on the new chassis before spring. That build will have more stuff, like trackspeed studs, 99 head, coolant reroute and probably a bigger radiator. I want to track it so, reliability, yo.
Today I did some more work, but no pics till later because I forgot my camera. Here's a list because
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Originally Posted by MartinezA92
(Post 793129)
You've gotta be fucking kidding me.
What the shit. |
Originally Posted by soviet
(Post 793241)
[*]Got my 3/8 NPT tap. I need to buy a 9/16 drill bit, otherwise I would have tapped the IC by now. 3/8 NPT is same size for IAT and oil drain, btw.
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Originally Posted by Faeflora
(Post 793205)
Just put the fucking bulb in the airstream like genius above you says
I mean apart from leaving it lying in the engine bay somewhere how would it be possible! FWIW from talking to a respected n/a engine builder, the air heats up tremendously as it slams into the back of closed valves and has to suddenly change direction. BUT I don't personally see how a plenum mounted IAT can improve anything, it's not like our engines die left right and centre due to improperly mounted intake sensors ;) |
Originally Posted by Faeflora
(Post 793183)
The solution for this is to make sure that the sensor bulb is directly exposed to the airstream. My heatsoak went away when I did this and it reacts instantly now. Yay.
I believe this, but I'm not removing and tapping my IM to find out if it works better. |
forgot to answer
Originally Posted by wittyworks
(Post 793114)
Maaco paint job looks pretty good, does it look as nice in person? Single stage paint?
Also, there is a ton of overspray. Classic red tow hooks, anyone? :rofl:
Originally Posted by Faeflora
(Post 793253)
g g g GUESSS WHOOO HAS A SUPERSICK 9/16 drill bit!!!!!!!
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Originally Posted by richyvrlimited
(Post 793293)
Only Mr Sawzall himself could fit an IAT sensor and it not be in the airstream.
I mean apart from leaving it lying in the engine bay somewhere how would it be possible! FWIW from talking to a respected n/a engine builder, the air heats up tremendously as it slams into the back of closed valves and has to suddenly change direction. BUT I don't personally see how a plenum mounted IAT can improve anything, it's not like our engines die left right and centre due to improperly mounted intake sensors ;) The default BEGI AIT mounting method is to put the sensor in a brass cylinder, where the bulb is not in the airstream. |
Originally Posted by Faeflora
(Post 793330)
Yes just put it in the intake pipe.
The default BEGI AIT mounting method is to put the sensor in a brass cylinder, where the bulb is not in the airstream. I'll admit in my 1st iteration of my supercharger setup I screwed my IAT sensor into a Dummy Throttle body. As the threads were different, it only went partway in, that fecker heatsoaked like a bitch and never actually reported true air temp. Only the temp of the alui casting. It lasted a day in that setup. |
Nice looking build.
And yes, moving IAT sensor to a colder location helps. |
Originally Posted by Faeflora
(Post 793330)
The default BEGI AIT mounting method is to put the sensor in a brass cylinder, where the bulb is not in the airstream.
the real problem is, if the bung is between the TB and IACV port, it's not getting airflow. but even at idle, it's really not flowing enough to really register correct temps, and the pipes themselves are heatsoaked from being in the bay, being behind the radiator. |
Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 793374)
The sender sticks out beyond the bung...
the real problem is, if the bung is between the TB and IACV port, it's not getting airflow. but even at idle, it's really not flowing enough to really register correct temps, and the pipes themselves are heatsoaked from being in the bay, being behind the radiator. I think you are talking about the NA intake mani and I don't know anything about that. |
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I'm installing everything on friday night after work. Initially I'll run whatever stock wastegate will do (6-7psi?). Then once EBC is working (or, possibly MBC if I can't figure it out) it's whatever that poor turbo can do. Air filter arrived. It's supposed to be an Amsoil filter but it's branded Injen. Dunno. It's 3" inlet and I was able to tighten it on my 2.75" BEGI inlet pipe. Life's good.
Only thing I'm missing is an M10x1.5 to -3AN fitting for oil feed, but it should arrive on Thursday. If not, I have a long-ass oil feed line/fittings to go from the oil sender. ok so here are some pictures! Harness. The seats are fake Bride seats with about 10k miles. Rollbar is a *deep breath* Hard Dog M1 Hard Top Hardcore double diagonal. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1320813334 Bought an 9/16 drill bit (shit's expensive) and tapped the IC. Temperature sensor not quite super directly in air stream but me no care. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1320813334 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1320813334 Trimmed IC bracket. I didn't clean it up because fuck it. Will make it look nice later. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1320813334 Complete intercooler piping with my ghetto radiator hoses. Cold-side to BOV is actually an old miata radiator hose (forget which one). I think it'll be ok for 3 weeks. I'll probably need to trim it because I never test-fitted it. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1320813334 Boost gauge. Cheapest Vacuum/Boost gauge that looked decent. Lighting maches miata gauges pretty nicely. Had to order a $2.50 barbed fitting from McMaster to make it work. It's a VDO 150-121 and the fitting is McMaster part 44555K123 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1320813334 |
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Today I rescaled all my maps up to 200kpa. Please let me know if anything is wrong with them.
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1320981217 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1320981217 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1320981217 Timing > 100kpa is from DIYPNP base map Fuel > 100kpa is also from DIYPNP base map but scaled to match my N/A map AFR > 100kpa is from a map thirdgen posted in Good AFR target table?. I'll adjust it anyways so it doesn't matter as much. Turbo goes on tomorrow! Wish me luck!! |
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Also if anyone is interested, I wrote a small tool to rescale maps. Basically you export your old map, then change axes to whatever new values you want. Then run the tool and it produces a new map using the old values but new axes. Uses billinear interpolation so beats doing it by hand!!
Currently it's limited to maps of same size (e.g. from 12x12 to 12x12) but it's easy to change, if anyone wants. So map size can be changed, e.g. going from 12x12 maps to 16x16 maps when upgrading to MS3. The tool - http://s95367906.onlinehome.us/photo...MapRescale.exe Example Source NA map, autotuned. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1320983173 Desired Axes. I zero-ed out all the data for demonstration purposes. Only axes matter here http://s95367906.onlinehome.us/photo...ild/ve_axes.pg Running the tool http://s95367906.onlinehome.us/photo...ld/map_tool.pg Resulting map http://s95367906.onlinehome.us/photo...ve_rescaled.pg |
Nice idea - I missed a tool like this up to now. Can't download it though - say's it's not found.
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Ooops... URL updated!
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Well, car is turboed :) I put on about 150 street miles on it this weekend and nothing fell off. Although, the cat now hits the transmission tunnel and makes epic noises. I'll fix it tomorrow. Also ordered a 2.5" straight pipe because I want to shoot fireballs.
Wastegate is spot-on 7psi which arrives before 3k. I'm happy. Pictures tomorrow! Fuel map is also extremely rich but doesn't bog - which is perfect for VE Analyze. Picked up an ACT 6-puck from Faeflora which I might install this week. MBC should have arrived, if not, it'll be here tomorrow. So 12 psi here I come :) |
Watch your AFRs when you hit bigger boost! May run out of fuel! When you do fuel pump change fuel filter too. It is probably full of rocks.
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This is a 4th gear pull about 10 minutes after I finished putting the turbo on. So nevermind AFRs that drop to below what my sensor can read (i.e. less than 10:1).
http://s95367906.onlinehome.us/photo...gear_7psi.png_ 7psi @ 2700 rpm and 31F intake temps. I'm not sure why boost drops to 6psi after (MBC will fix that maybe?) but it goes back up to 7psi after 5k rpm. |
Car's done for the year, and the chassis is done forever. It had a happy life but right now it's parked & done. It will be reborn on a new chassis in spring :)
Today was the last autocross of the season. I was supposed to attend but overslept by only 5 hours. I showed up anyways and had a buddy drive my car (first time ever after turbo). It was set to 11-10psi and it came at about 3k rpm. Here's a vid of the first run: My RS3s are down to cords and have no grip. Brakes are shit because apparently I didn't break them in perfect. Rear shocks will also need to be replace as they are shot (under w warranty though). I'm happy :) |
lmao
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Is that a snow plow or a miata? because that thing plows.
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So when you lock the front wheels, the car will plow. Who would have thought :)
I'm getting a proportioning valve and my buddy now wants to get a turbo. |
it plowed the whole run :)
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Reviving this thread for upcoming glory.
Next week I'm moving into my new house which has a garage. So that means I get to work on my car(s)! Last week went to a junk yard in search of a Torsen. Didn't find one, but got myself a timing wheel off a 1.6 Protege (was 99 I think) and a crank position sensor. I plan on building and running MS3 with this cam + modified CAS. The timing wheel and crank sensor should both bolt on. Should be glorious. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1327259856 Then, it turned out a buddy of mine had a 4.3 Torsen lying around with a broken housing. I picked it up for some alcohol and money. I figure 4.3 + 5 speed will be sexy. When I get a 6-speed I'll change the diff (or at least the r&p). https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1327259856 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1327259856 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1327259856 |
that's a fantastic deal on the torsen.
not sure how easily that wheel/sensor will adapt (at least not a plug in and go afair imo) but running a timing wheel setup vs just cas will be a good improvement |
I gots your big giant buddy fork
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My 99 has the 5sp/4.30 and I'm getting sick of it already. It was fine for NA but with 200+hp, 1st gear is useless and it runs out of gear at like 125mph.
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Originally Posted by Faeflora
(Post 824513)
I gots your big giant buddy fork
Originally Posted by 18psi
(Post 824509)
that's a fantastic deal on the torsen.
not sure how easily that wheel/sensor will adapt (at least not a plug in and go afair imo) but running a timing wheel setup vs just cas will be a good improvement
Originally Posted by flounder
(Post 824526)
My 99 has the 5sp/4.30 and I'm getting sick of it already. It was fine for NA but with 200+hp, 1st gear is useless and it runs out of gear at like 125mph.
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4.3 vs 4.1 not a big enough difference to really matter imo, they both suck
oh how I wish I had 3.6 rp of glory:cry: |
4.3 with a 5 speed is taller in every gear than 3.6 and 6 speed. I think I'll live.
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New parts:
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1328751365 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1328751365 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1328751365 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1328751365 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1328751365 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1328751365 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1328751365 Xida Club Sports were also on the order, but they have a 3 week lead time. So technically they should be shipped next monday. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1328751365 After seeing pschmidt's cheap ass internals, I decided, ---- it, I'll build my engine. I bought pistons, rods, billet oil pump in new casing and main cap bolts from him. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1328751365 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1328751365 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1328751365 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1328751365 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1328751365 FM 9:1 84mm Wiseco pistons, billet oil pump, arp main studs. Total cost: $760 I had a 99 head/intake mani/fuel rail/throttle body already ($180 total at a junk yard, lol) https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1328751365 Nitto NT-01s. These will be on my 15x9s and I'll order 15x8 TRMotorsports C1 with Star Specs for normal driving. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1328751365 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1328751365 And a book with all clearances https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1328751365 |
Tomorrow I'm taking the block/piston/head to Fairfax Auto Parts machine shop. It was between this one and Tyson's Automotive. First one said 2 week lead time, second said 3-4 weeks. I want to drive the car in March, so I went with the first one.
Going for bore/hone and resurface both engine block and head. Budgeted $300, got quoted around $250. We'll see. |
Your OEM rods are obviously out of spec since they are not bent.
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Originally Posted by Faeflora
(Post 832793)
Your OEM rods are obviously out of spec since they are not bent.
wat am i doin rong?! |
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I cleaned up the engine block, head and pistons. Then on Thursday I dropped the whole deal off at the machine shop. Talked to the machinist a bit, apparently he worked on quite a few miata engines. Thanks MT for the machine shop recommendation.
Anyways, took apart all the rear suspension and front suspension half way. Also took apart the diff and started putting it back. Removed 14 bushings from rear suspension, 8 to go. For anyone thinking of using the $5 tool, be warned that it bends control arms pretty easily. Especially the upper rear control arms (small ones). The Harbor Freight ball joint press kit makes it A LOT easier. And you need it anyways to remove the 2 bushings from the rear knuckles. So buy it. Use a 20% off coupon, comes out to <$60. Pictars. fail https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1329193206 fail http://s95367906.onlinehome.us/photo...d/DSC_9338.jpg WIN! https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1329193206 |
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Now the diff. First, taking it apart, I stripped the longest bolt that holds the housing to the actual diff. No worries, out came my prying fork and an angle grinder.
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1329193617 Then I washed it in my dishwasher. Washing stuff in the dishwasher is ok so far. Just make sure you don't wash IRON parts because they will be covered with surface rust after steam drying. Alu is fine. Dishwasher is fine too. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1329193617 At this point the diff bushings were still in. I figured, damn, I don't have an easy way of getting them out. So today over lunch I went to a repair shop and asked if they could press the old bushings out. They basically bitched that it's too much work. I said ---- it, went to Advance Auto and bought a $25 4" puller. This, combined with the parts from the ball joint press from Harbor Freight = awesome tool for removing bushings. It's super easy. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1329193617 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1329193617 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1329193617 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1329193617 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1329193617 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1329193617 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1329193617 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1329193617 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1329193617 |
g g g goOOOD FRAKKIGN PUKE LORD i say replace control arm with freshie! you need new one that old one looks like it is gonna rustify pronto
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Originally Posted by Faeflora
(Post 834868)
g g g goOOOD FRAKKIGN PUKE LORD i say replace control arm with freshie! you need new one that old one looks like it is gonna rustify pronto
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Nice build. Subscribed
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For the $5 you need heat for it to really work well. Without heat my rears were starting to flex. Applied, heat, came out like butter.
How hard do you think it would be to put the engine in the same method you removed it? |
The difficulty with doing it this way is that you can't get the legs of the engine hoist underneath the subframe. I haven't decided how I'll do it, yet.
I might do subframe without control arms + engine. |
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I bought a cheap Borg Warner S246 off ebay. Really cheap. I'm not going to use it anytime soon (if ever?) but it's a cute little turbo.
Next to a my SR20 T25 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1329463380 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1329463380 Journal bearings, twin scroll, oil only, easy and cheap to rebuild, should last approximately forever, gigantic. 4.21" v-band outlet, lol |
I can't PM you back since I don't have enough posts....but to paint my bay I used 4 cans of each:
Primer Color Clear Came out amazing. I've rattle canned a lot of things, but the clear I used (Spraymax 2k) truly took this job to the next level. It just doesn't look like a rattle can job done in a tent... Good score on the internals...I'm kinda wishing I would have jumped on that. Bird |
thanks man! I feel kinda bad about doing the exact same engine bay. I thought about using duplicolor chrome and I think that'll just be aids and fail.
internals were relatively cheap but once you add everything else ($120 rings, for once) it stats adding up. Built engines aint cheap :( edit: damn, that clear coat is like $20 a can. 4x20 = $80 D: |
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