navalhawkeye

Hmm...definitely didn't intend to imply you were doing anything wrong. You are obviously doing things very right. I also think 949 is crazy suggesting 1300lb springs are right.

I'm not sure I follow the not ride height or shock issue.

TNTUBA

iTrader: (1)

Ohhh. I was responding to Leafy's comment about being more spring than the shocks could handle, and having to run a high ride height to avoid rubs.

Most of the folks who SOLO have their cars sprung WAY too stiffly.

Most of the lots we run on are VERY bumpy....like ball joint busting bumpy. Having the car compliant over those bumps is worth WAY more time than having the car so stiff it never rolls.

What front sway bar are you running?

navalhawkeye

Ah, okay. I was like I didn't think I said anything out of line lol

I am running the small fortune racing bar (same as leafy). I've got it on the middle setting, which I think is probably just a little bit stiffer than the RB hollow bar.

Also, just to clarify: rubbing on the top of the wheel well/shock tower IS stiffness/travel related, right? It is engaging the bump stop before it rubs.

TNTUBA

iTrader: (1)

I don't know that bar.

I run the ISC 1.25" .250 wall bar full stiff which I think is a lot stiffer than the RB bar.

But I will say, I am sprung a lot softer than "they" will say a Miata should be sprung......and I have a few hundred springs in the shop as a result of all the testing I did.

We tried 1300, 1200, 1100, 1000....etc etc etc And our rear springs are a bit stiffer than "they" will say you should run.

I will say, what works for my car and my setup might not work for others...I am just trying to encourage you to think outside the box and test test test.

Leafy

iTrader: (1)

I was thinking the other way. Most people that solo seem to run too soft of springs (except for tipple holy too stiff batman) for their ride height and end up cornering on the bump stops in every corner instead of just only hitting the stops in corner with a bump. I know my car got looser going from 800 to 1k springs because of it. Its not like I didn't consider raising the car, but from what I was seeing for cornering loads I'd have had to raise that car significantly to keep it off the bump stops in a smooth corner. Ryan and I both have speedway bars, same as your ISC. I cant remember the wall thickness of the 1.25 bar but its setup so the middle setting is about the same as the RB race bar, in theory. But with actually bearings in it, it has way way less real worth roll resistance than the poly bushing bind fest of the racing beat bar. You've got to go with stiffer springs or more bar when you switch if you made your car work with the RB.

TNTUBA

iTrader: (1)

Tipple went softer after ToMo drove his car a couple weeks ago

Forgive me being touchy.....living through a broken crank in the middle of the season has been a bit stressful

Leafy

iTrader: (1)

Its fine. I'm not even interested enough to take offers on rides to race or fix my car.

navalhawkeye

Tried 1100/600 this weekend. I'm not sure I like the feel of it, but it was definitely faster. Had top pax for almost the entire day, then got beat by like the third to last car to run (one of the 4 in Tamra's RX8). Doh!

With springs that stiff, it's definitely harder to feel like you're really leaning on it. It's just...numb. Still didn't fix the rubbing, I don't think. Really frustrating. I think at this point, I need to try a little more wheel spacer. I already have 13mm with the 15x11's, but maybe 18 would help some. It would at least not hit anything until it has traveled further.

What I tried yesterday: 1100lb front springs, 4-4 1/8" pinch weld height. Sway bar is set to something a bit stiffer than the RB hollow bar, 5/16" worth of packers. If it's cooler than the surface of the sun before 8pm, I might unload the car and look at it. But heat index is supposed to be 109* today.

New issue: The setup change screwed something up with the rear, and now it's one wheel peels sometimes. Stiffer springs = less droop travel, I guess...but I have helpers that I would have expected to have prevented that. Grumble.

Speaking of which, that was the absolute worst weather I've had the misfortune of being outside in. It was impossible to exist without just sweating out gallons of water.

TNTUBA

iTrader: (1)

So I am really perplexed by the spring conversation. Attached is a video of my car from a National Event at Bristol Motor Speedway in Tennessee. When I look at the smoothness of your home surface and the outright brutal bumps for the Bristol Surface.......I am wondering if we have just found it to be faster Nationally with the softer springs because most of the sites where we run "Lincoln Included" are just so bumpy?

At that Bristol event, there were people who pulled out of the event because the surface was so harsh.....and it wasn't a factor for us at all. I assume that a big part of that is the uber awesome job the Inertia Lab did on the shocks.....but I wonder if being over all "softer" helps that out?

I will be the first ti admit that I am not at all an expert on this......but I also march to the beat of a VERY different drum with the whole setup on this car.

navalhawkeye

I definitely preferred the softer setup as well - feel wise, if nothing else. But, I'm curious how different 1100lb springs and softer sway bar are compared to the softer, but probably stiffer sway bar settings you run.

I can't figure out why the tires are hitting the chassis so hard. What wheel offset are you running in the front? I'm running the 15x11 6UL's, with 13mm of spacer. Which works out to +7, I believe.

Leafy

iTrader: (1)

I dont consider lincoln all that bumpy.

I think Eric just won the chassis tolerance lottery with his car. I dont think either of us will get the amount of tire clearance as him without cheating. With all my messing around I did find the best way to test for tire clearance was to take both front springs out, put it back together, put it on my alignment stands then just let the car down slowly till the jack wasnt supporting it anymore. Its close to 1g worth of cornering load on the bump stop which had better be more than the bump stop experiences after the spring takes its piece. That way you can really get under there and turn the wheels and feel around for where its hitting and how much clearance you have, makes it really fast to snap packers in that way.

I cant tell you what offset I have. I forget it all and I cant find my emails for my keizers or spinwerks. IIRC the backspacing on both is equal to the 15x10 949s with a 6mm spacer.

navalhawkeye

I'll try taking an air hammer to that general area.

TNTUBA

iTrader: (1)

I do have custom offset wheels from Bogart and I do still run a very thin spacer on the front.

My shock towers are "polished" from tire rub.....but there is no way it would cut the tires. The wheels rub ob more things than the tires. I have notches in my upper and lower control arms as well as the sway bar arms where the wheels have "self clearanced" themselves. The goal of "nothing rubbing" is unachievable, but not cutting tires is being done by all the SSM cars and CSP cars running the same wheel and tire setup....I've even heard rumors of someone getting the 295's on a 15 x 12 on the front without rubbing more than we already do.

There has been LIBERAL use of a 5lb sledge hammer(Air hammer just wasn't getting it done) to the wheel wells as well as some cutting and re-welding of metal (clarification was published in a fast track in response to a letter I wrote the SMAC clarifying that modification to the inner wheel well was in line with the "1 lb" rule.

navalhawkeye

Mine is more than polished. There's quite a bit of rubber built up from being ground off. Agree that stuff is going to rub no matter what.

Hammering will be done.

Leafy

iTrader: (1)

I didnt realize there was a clarification in the fast track. Back when I was struggling I had a conversation with some then current and now current members of the smac and we all pretty much agreed that cutting and welding the wheel wells to fit more tire was outside the scope of the 1lb rule. My tires do rub on one side of the sway bar, and the wheels now rub on the tie rod with the relocated rack.

TNTUBA

iTrader: (1)

This clarification has been out for a couple of years.

People need to remember when they are having thoughts about the rules, it is incumbent upon the competitors to search the available publications. It would be nice if there was a searchable repository of all the items addressed in the fast tracks......but at this time, there isn't.....so you have to go through them one by one. It's rather exhausting.

What people say in conversation or what people post on the internet is conjecture.....the ONLY thing that matters is official communication from the governing body in the fast tracks and rule books...and even then it is up to the protest committee to determine the application of the rule.

If you are thinking about doing something that is questionable..the ONLY way to get a meaningful response is to write a letter and wait the months it takes for the response to be published in the Fast Track.

navalhawkeye

Corner balanced the car last Friday. First time ever doing it myself, so not sure I did it completely correctly or not.

Without driver, and missing splitter (15lbs):




With me (again, without splitter):




I'm surprised/curious that the LR is so much heavier? The power steering pump is there, but that doesn't weigh all that much. Harbor Freight battery on the right side.

Leafy

iTrader: (1)

Left rear is always heavier unless you run a hella heavy battery. I dont have any pictures of my weight before the motor swap and 40lb battery, But with I've got 539lb on the left rear and 552 on the right rear. But that would be like 514 on the right if I had the hobbyking battery in it.

navalhawkeye

Huh, interesting.

Going to remove the trunk hinges and stuff this week hopefully.

thumpetto007

iTrader: (15)

Aren't you supposed to adjust spring preloads to redistribute weight balance? Or am remembering incorrectly? I thought that's what corner balancing is.