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Old 10-26-2011, 01:03 PM   #21
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When useless gov't workers are laid off en masse, in the short term it will be painful, but in the long term, it will be a good thing, because now they will tend to get jobs that are productive.

Gov't bureaucrat jobs are "make work" programs. The gov't may as well tax us or print money (creating inflation which is a stealth tax), and hire workers to dig holes and fill them back in, all year long.

In contrast to gov't, private businesses only survive if they create value - and the way they know they create value is that customers are willing to voluntarily pay for their products or services.
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Old 10-26-2011, 03:52 PM   #22
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Yes. For example, walk me through what you think would happen if FEMA was eliminated and you - along with the 6500 or so staff employed by that organization - were out of a job.

Besides you, describe what you think would happen to:
  • the typical white collar middle manager with a wife and two kids approaching college who had six months of savings in the bank but also a mortgage (underwater) and two car payments
  • the typical blue collar laborer who worked for one of the contractors FEMA subbed disaster relief work out to

I am not saying your position is wrong, I am just curious if you have thought through the operational aspects or if it is more of a theoretical/ideological position.
If I were laid off tomorrow, which is likely, I have money to live on for a while. I can also walk into any place with a hiring sign and make ~$12/hour. I can also go bartend again and make about $800/week. I won't make as much as I'm making now, but I will survive and do it without bankruptcy, foreclosure, car surrender, or government money. I could also most likely continue with skilled labor in some area like insurance, general project management, or account management. There are a few things I can do and I'm ready to do them when this great job goes away.

BTW, local government contracts for labor, not FEMA.
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Old 10-26-2011, 04:20 PM   #23
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It's not exploitation if both sides accept voluntarily, without someone with a gun influencing the deal.

Also, I find $2/hr hard to believe. Pls. post link providing evidence.
the guns are in mexico, not here.

2/hr was hyperbole.
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Old 10-26-2011, 05:14 PM   #24
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It's not exploitation if both sides accept voluntarily, without someone with a gun influencing the deal.
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the guns are in mexico, not here.
The "gun in the room" is a metaphor for gov't. Gov't has a legal monopoly on the use of force to get its way. Laws are enforced by the barrel of a gun. When said laws are written, those with the most political pull and money influence those laws. In the absence of laws that directly influence economic transactions, those transactions are purely voluntary on both sides. In such a case, the proper purpose of gov't is merely to protect individual and property rights, and enforce contracts (e.g. prosecute fraud).
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Old 10-26-2011, 05:59 PM   #25
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If I were laid off tomorrow, which is likely, I have money to live on for a while. I can also walk into any place with a hiring sign and make ~$12/hour. I can also go bartend again and make about $800/week. I won't make as much as I'm making now, but I will survive and do it without bankruptcy, foreclosure, car surrender, or government money.
And how would you imagine the other two examples playing out?


Edit: And are you just gonna sit there and let Jason call you a "useless gov't worker?"
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Old 10-27-2011, 04:57 AM   #26
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like I said earlier, the farmers are going to have to find creative ways to figure out how to not go broke paying field worker wages and still get field worker work done.
well said considering our current market

though i must say if our government didn't hand out bullshit subsidies with my hard earned paycheck to other crops like geneticly modified corn than your statement would not fit whatsoever

i dont even eat most of the bs pesticide packed unhealthy food that our government forces me to assist others with. this is wealth re-distribution

a free market would work much better and competition would be much more fair if people like me weren't forced to pay for food we do not eat

it is our grocery dollar that shapes the produce market
when you spend that dollar at the market you are essentially voting on what you want the farmers to produce.
people like me sir do not have a fair vote when the government forces me to pay for crap i do not eat
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