Gun Rights: Should you be allowed to own an RPG?
11-17-2016, 10:50 PM
#1601
[QUOTE=ridethecliche;1375427]I consider it the place where I sleep at night wondering if I will be found dead underneath all my books.[/QUOTE
I would have responded earlier but I was busy at work. Saving up some play money so I can buy more guns to increase my chances of dying by one of them. What percent increase per gun is it?
I would have responded earlier but I was busy at work. Saving up some play money so I can buy more guns to increase my chances of dying by one of them. What percent increase per gun is it?
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11-18-2016, 07:48 AM
#1602
Boost Czar
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Thank god for armed citizens:
Pizza Restaurant Customer Pulls Glock, Kills Armed Robbery Suspect - Breitbart
According to Levittown Now, police said “two employees were inside Porfirio’s II Pizza and the customer was standing inside when the two robbers, both of whom were armed with handguns, entered the shop around 10 p.m.” The suspects ordered everyone to the ground and allegedly “began pistol-whipping the customer.” The customer then pulled his Glock and opened fire, striking both suspects.
Middletown police chief Joseph Bartorilla said, “One of the robbery suspects was dead and laying on the floor of the pizza shop at the corner of Veterans Highway (Route 413) and Trenton Road while another was in serious condition and being transferred from St. Mary Medical Center to a Thomas Jefferson University Hospital in Philadelphia.”
Bartorilla said, “The deceased robber was shot in the chest and the seriously injured robber was shot in the shoulder and the neck.” He said the customer “was not seriously hurt” and no charges are expected to be filed against him.
Pizza Restaurant Customer Pulls Glock, Kills Armed Robbery Suspect - Breitbart
A customer in Porfirio’s II Pizza pulled a Glock handgun and shot and killed one of two alleged armed robbers and left the second robbery suspect in “serious condition.”
The incident occurred in Levittown, Pennsylvania around 10 p.m.According to Levittown Now, police said “two employees were inside Porfirio’s II Pizza and the customer was standing inside when the two robbers, both of whom were armed with handguns, entered the shop around 10 p.m.” The suspects ordered everyone to the ground and allegedly “began pistol-whipping the customer.” The customer then pulled his Glock and opened fire, striking both suspects.
Middletown police chief Joseph Bartorilla said, “One of the robbery suspects was dead and laying on the floor of the pizza shop at the corner of Veterans Highway (Route 413) and Trenton Road while another was in serious condition and being transferred from St. Mary Medical Center to a Thomas Jefferson University Hospital in Philadelphia.”
Bartorilla said, “The deceased robber was shot in the chest and the seriously injured robber was shot in the shoulder and the neck.” He said the customer “was not seriously hurt” and no charges are expected to be filed against him.
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11-19-2016, 02:11 AM
#1603
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Thank god for armed citizens:
Pizza Restaurant Customer Pulls Glock, Kills Armed Robbery Suspect - Breitbart
Pizza Restaurant Customer Pulls Glock, Kills Armed Robbery Suspect - Breitbart
[QUOTE=stratosteve;1375539]
I consider it the place where I sleep at night wondering if I will be found dead underneath all my books.[/QUOTE
I would have responded earlier but I was busy at work. Saving up some play money so I can buy more guns to increase my chances of dying by one of them. What percent increase per gun is it?
I would have responded earlier but I was busy at work. Saving up some play money so I can buy more guns to increase my chances of dying by one of them. What percent increase per gun is it?
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11-23-2016, 11:04 PM
#1605
"Bunch of misleading charts"
Majority of gun deaths in the US are suicides.
Majority of gun homicides in the US are inner city gang ****, done with stolen/black market handguns.
Majority of violent crime in the US is not homicide.
Majority of crime in the US is non-violent.
Majority of people in the US are not criminals of any sort, even in the hood.
Keep in mind that we are talking about restricting a fundamental right based upon a grossly inflated figure that represents a tiny portion of criminal activity in the US. Murder is extremely rare. Murder with guns is even rarer. Most gun deaths in the US are suicides and suicide suffers from a massive substitution effect when you take away one method. People who want to kill themselves will still want to kill themselves even if they can't find a gun. Japan has a massive suicide rate compared to the US, all done without guns.
In the case of "assault weapons" they are almost completely absent from crime stats because rifles are barely ever used in crimes and even when they are, they usually aren't fancy expensive black rifles.
"we need to track guns"
This is stupid because the fundamental problem is one of enforcement.
The people who will comply with background check, transfer registration and ownership registration laws aren't important from a criminal justice perspective. They don't commit crimes and their guns won't be involved in crime unless they get stolen. Once a gun is stolen, either the cops know where it is (and can recover it) or they don't know where it is (and they can't). The thief isn't going to register the stolen gun under any circumstances, for reasons I would hope are obvious. It will just show up at a crime scene 5 or 10 years later.
The people and the guns you care about tracking aren't going to cooperate with any tracking system because the second they admit to going near a gun you can lock them in prison for 10-15 years. The vast majority of these guys already have serious records. Hell, in my experience, a lot of these guys will have active warrants half the time they are out of prison. Just finding them at all means they go to prison, let alone finding them with a gun. If the cops can't find a wanted criminal with a list of known addresses, how will it help to have a list of non-criminals who own guns?
Majority of gun deaths in the US are suicides.
Majority of gun homicides in the US are inner city gang ****, done with stolen/black market handguns.
Majority of violent crime in the US is not homicide.
Majority of crime in the US is non-violent.
Majority of people in the US are not criminals of any sort, even in the hood.
Keep in mind that we are talking about restricting a fundamental right based upon a grossly inflated figure that represents a tiny portion of criminal activity in the US. Murder is extremely rare. Murder with guns is even rarer. Most gun deaths in the US are suicides and suicide suffers from a massive substitution effect when you take away one method. People who want to kill themselves will still want to kill themselves even if they can't find a gun. Japan has a massive suicide rate compared to the US, all done without guns.
In the case of "assault weapons" they are almost completely absent from crime stats because rifles are barely ever used in crimes and even when they are, they usually aren't fancy expensive black rifles.
"we need to track guns"
This is stupid because the fundamental problem is one of enforcement.
The people who will comply with background check, transfer registration and ownership registration laws aren't important from a criminal justice perspective. They don't commit crimes and their guns won't be involved in crime unless they get stolen. Once a gun is stolen, either the cops know where it is (and can recover it) or they don't know where it is (and they can't). The thief isn't going to register the stolen gun under any circumstances, for reasons I would hope are obvious. It will just show up at a crime scene 5 or 10 years later.
The people and the guns you care about tracking aren't going to cooperate with any tracking system because the second they admit to going near a gun you can lock them in prison for 10-15 years. The vast majority of these guys already have serious records. Hell, in my experience, a lot of these guys will have active warrants half the time they are out of prison. Just finding them at all means they go to prison, let alone finding them with a gun. If the cops can't find a wanted criminal with a list of known addresses, how will it help to have a list of non-criminals who own guns?
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11-24-2016, 02:01 PM
#1607
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Yeah, and it's too bad if you ran a bad number the cops would be kicking in your door and shooting your dog that night, whether you bought it or not. Or they would making a list of legal guns they think you may own for confiscation at some point.
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11-25-2016, 08:27 AM
#1609
On a separate but related note I wish the straw purchase definition was revised a bit to eliminate the illegality of purchasing for a second person who is not a prohibited person.
Supreme Court Affirms Police Officer's Felony Conviction for Buying Gun for Law-Abiding Uncle - Breitbart
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11-27-2016, 08:55 PM
#1610
You can apply all the conspiracy theories ever thought up about this concept, but it would be simple to implement. And yes, then the Gov't would know more accurately who own guns and how many based on the number of times you have codes generated (they know who you are anyways), and yadda yadda yadda.
When I do face-to-face sales now, I let the buyer or seller know in advance that I'll want to see their CCW and DL to know they're not prohibited... if they don't have a CCW, I just tell them I'm not interested no matter how good a deal it might be. It would be comforting to be able to log onto a website and see their face next to the words "not prohibited"... but my spidey-sense is pretty good and this is 'Merica after all.
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01-13-2017, 08:26 AM
#1612
Boost Czar
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Good Samaritan shoots, kills suspect beating wounded DPS trooper on I-10 | Firstcoastnews.com
I hope they Zimmerman this guy.
A suspect is dead and an Arizona Department of Public Safety trooper is recovering after he was ambushed and shot early Thursday on Interstate 10, according to DPS officials.
DPS director Col. Frank Milstead said the suspect was shot and killed near Tonopah by a good Samaritan who pulled off the interstate to help the trooper.
"I don't know if my trooper would be alive today without his assistance," Milstead said.
Arizona Department of Public Safety officials have identified the trooper as Edward Anderson. They said he is hospitalized in serious but stable condition.
The 27-year veteran underwent surgery for gunshot wounds to a shoulder and arm.
Authorities say a possible motive for the attack on the trooper remains unclear.
The shooting occurred at the scene of a rollover crash in which a woman was ejected and fatally injured.
DPS officials say Anderson spotted the wreck as he responded to a report of shots being fired at another motorist's vehicle.
Milstead said a call came in early Thursday morning from a driver who said their car had been shot at from the median of I-10 at milepost 81 -- just east of California.
The trooper was on his way to investigate the call when he discovered a rollover crash near milepost 89.
A woman had been ejected in that crash -- she was later pronounced dead.
Milstead said as the trooper began blocking off lanes of traffic and laying out flares, he was ambushed by the suspect.
The suspect shot the trooper in the right shoulder, and was "getting the better of the trooper" in a fight that immediately followed.
Milstead said the suspect was on top of the trooper striking his head on the pavement.
According to Milstead, a man traveling westbound on I-10 with his wife in the car, pulled over to help the trooper.
The man retrieved a gun from his car and fired at the suspect after the suspect refused to stop attacking the trooper, Milstead said.
The suspect died as a result of the shooting and the man called for help using the trooper's radio, according to Milstead.
...
DPS director Col. Frank Milstead said the suspect was shot and killed near Tonopah by a good Samaritan who pulled off the interstate to help the trooper.
"I don't know if my trooper would be alive today without his assistance," Milstead said.
Arizona Department of Public Safety officials have identified the trooper as Edward Anderson. They said he is hospitalized in serious but stable condition.
The 27-year veteran underwent surgery for gunshot wounds to a shoulder and arm.
Authorities say a possible motive for the attack on the trooper remains unclear.
The shooting occurred at the scene of a rollover crash in which a woman was ejected and fatally injured.
DPS officials say Anderson spotted the wreck as he responded to a report of shots being fired at another motorist's vehicle.
Milstead said a call came in early Thursday morning from a driver who said their car had been shot at from the median of I-10 at milepost 81 -- just east of California.
The trooper was on his way to investigate the call when he discovered a rollover crash near milepost 89.
A woman had been ejected in that crash -- she was later pronounced dead.
Milstead said as the trooper began blocking off lanes of traffic and laying out flares, he was ambushed by the suspect.
The suspect shot the trooper in the right shoulder, and was "getting the better of the trooper" in a fight that immediately followed.
Milstead said the suspect was on top of the trooper striking his head on the pavement.
According to Milstead, a man traveling westbound on I-10 with his wife in the car, pulled over to help the trooper.
The man retrieved a gun from his car and fired at the suspect after the suspect refused to stop attacking the trooper, Milstead said.
The suspect died as a result of the shooting and the man called for help using the trooper's radio, according to Milstead.
...
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02-09-2017, 01:35 PM
#1616
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/02/06/breaking-summary-leaked-atf-white-paper-analysis-nfa-free-suppressors-shouldered-braces-armor-piercing-ammo-oh/
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/02/06/breaking-atf-white-paper-leaked/
The conspiracy theories are endless here... my take:
The ATF has for decades been viewed as an enemy of law-abiding gun-owners and retailers. Most gun owners see them as an incompetent and wasteful organization that just makes it harder for all us "regular" guys to enjoy our hobby. The recent green-tip bans and numerous historical other "proposals" or legal changes are all the proof a guy needs that they are not on our side. Unfortunately for the ATF, they are just like any other gov't organization that needs to produce results (to some degree) to justify their existence. Support for gun-rights is at an all-time high right now and the new President was endorsed by the NRA very early in the race.
The ATF (it seems to me) has seen the writing on the wall that they better get their **** together or it's going to get ugly for them. There is already a strong sentiment that the ATF should get ****-canned entirely and it's functions parceled out to other gov't agencies. One way to increase meaningful productivity (stop pissing off gun law-abiding gun owners and start catching criminals) is to remove costly administrative burdens and get some leadership that gives a ****. Throwing a few bones to gun-owners will help with the faith.
Another aspect of this white-paper that hasn't been talked about is the ATF's role in the anti-gun agenda. Historically, the ATF has been viewed as being complicit in the anti-gun agenda. Whether or not this is true is irrelevant... the anti-gun crowd could always count on some level of support from the ATF if by nothing more than their silence on an issue. Well... looks like the ATF isn't going to be helping the anti crowd for at least the next 4 years, and quite clearly is interested (for it's own sake) in getting rid of some long-term boat anchors to free up man-hours for some real work.
The HPA will pass at some point. The suppressor industry is taking a big hit right now because nobody is buying in anticipation of it passing some time this summer. Insiders are saying "at least a year"... but the NRA is going to get pressure from the entire firearms industry to push it as a front-runner issue. Suppressor paperwork is 80% of the NFA burden and grows every year. The passage of the HPA will revolutionize the firearm industry overnight in this country.
Basically, the ATF needs to grow up... the mindset they're operating under grew out of the 60's and 70's and simply hasn't matured to the modern scene. I'm glad somebody there realizes the new President may be their only hope to accomplish this.
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/02/06/breaking-atf-white-paper-leaked/
The conspiracy theories are endless here... my take:
The ATF has for decades been viewed as an enemy of law-abiding gun-owners and retailers. Most gun owners see them as an incompetent and wasteful organization that just makes it harder for all us "regular" guys to enjoy our hobby. The recent green-tip bans and numerous historical other "proposals" or legal changes are all the proof a guy needs that they are not on our side. Unfortunately for the ATF, they are just like any other gov't organization that needs to produce results (to some degree) to justify their existence. Support for gun-rights is at an all-time high right now and the new President was endorsed by the NRA very early in the race.
The ATF (it seems to me) has seen the writing on the wall that they better get their **** together or it's going to get ugly for them. There is already a strong sentiment that the ATF should get ****-canned entirely and it's functions parceled out to other gov't agencies. One way to increase meaningful productivity (stop pissing off gun law-abiding gun owners and start catching criminals) is to remove costly administrative burdens and get some leadership that gives a ****. Throwing a few bones to gun-owners will help with the faith.
Another aspect of this white-paper that hasn't been talked about is the ATF's role in the anti-gun agenda. Historically, the ATF has been viewed as being complicit in the anti-gun agenda. Whether or not this is true is irrelevant... the anti-gun crowd could always count on some level of support from the ATF if by nothing more than their silence on an issue. Well... looks like the ATF isn't going to be helping the anti crowd for at least the next 4 years, and quite clearly is interested (for it's own sake) in getting rid of some long-term boat anchors to free up man-hours for some real work.
The HPA will pass at some point. The suppressor industry is taking a big hit right now because nobody is buying in anticipation of it passing some time this summer. Insiders are saying "at least a year"... but the NRA is going to get pressure from the entire firearms industry to push it as a front-runner issue. Suppressor paperwork is 80% of the NFA burden and grows every year. The passage of the HPA will revolutionize the firearm industry overnight in this country.
Basically, the ATF needs to grow up... the mindset they're operating under grew out of the 60's and 70's and simply hasn't matured to the modern scene. I'm glad somebody there realizes the new President may be their only hope to accomplish this.
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02-10-2017, 09:28 AM
#1617
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Sierra Vista, AZ
Posts: 1,193
Total Cats: 294
Just noticed this at another forum: https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/repeal-nfa
Unlikely to happen, but it can't hurt to try...
Unlikely to happen, but it can't hurt to try...
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02-10-2017, 05:56 PM
#1618
Just noticed this at another forum: https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/repeal-nfa
Unlikely to happen, but it can't hurt to try...
Unlikely to happen, but it can't hurt to try...
The problem is that the other laws that no politician who values the next election cycle is going anywhere near full-auto "on the streets". There's still the dozen other major gun-control legislation pieces out there. While there is a strong argument for removing suppressors via the HPA, and potentially getting the arbitrary definitions for handgun and rifle... and what constitutes a short-barrel removed so we don't have to navigate the depths of "if it starts out as a rifle, it can never be a pistol" bullshit that serves no purpose except to give more leverage to prosecutors if they happen to run across it as a byproduct of another crime. I have high hopes for HPA, and for the deregulation of SBR/SBS/AOW stuff to make that easier... but not on the cold tip of a witch's titty will full-auto ever be OTC to the public again in this country.
If the NFA got repealed, you still have the limited quantity of 180,000'ish transferable weapons in the country... whose overnight triple in price will make them even more removed from ownership by the common man. Can you imagine being able to buy an auto-sear at Gander Mountain for $40 when an M-16 is currently in the $30k range? How soon before every gang-banger in the whole country is spraying 100rd drums? That **** will never pass.
For now, concentrate on the HPA... low-hanging fruit that the ATF is clearly supporting.
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02-10-2017, 07:50 PM
#1619
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Sierra Vista, AZ
Posts: 1,193
Total Cats: 294
The NFA needs to be repealed because it's no longer relevant... fact.
The problem is that the other laws that no politician who values the next election cycle is going anywhere near full-auto "on the streets". There's still the dozen other major gun-control legislation pieces out there. While there is a strong argument for removing suppressors via the HPA, and potentially getting the arbitrary definitions for handgun and rifle... and what constitutes a short-barrel removed so we don't have to navigate the depths of "if it starts out as a rifle, it can never be a pistol" bullshit that serves no purpose except to give more leverage to prosecutors if they happen to run across it as a byproduct of another crime. I have high hopes for HPA, and for the deregulation of SBR/SBS/AOW stuff to make that easier... but not on the cold tip of a witch's titty will full-auto ever be OTC to the public again in this country.
If the NFA got repealed, you still have the limited quantity of 180,000'ish transferable weapons in the country... whose overnight triple in price will make them even more removed from ownership by the common man. Can you imagine being able to buy an auto-sear at Gander Mountain for $40 when an M-16 is currently in the $30k range? How soon before every gang-banger in the whole country is spraying 100rd drums? That **** will never pass.
For now, concentrate on the HPA... low-hanging fruit that the ATF is clearly supporting.
The problem is that the other laws that no politician who values the next election cycle is going anywhere near full-auto "on the streets". There's still the dozen other major gun-control legislation pieces out there. While there is a strong argument for removing suppressors via the HPA, and potentially getting the arbitrary definitions for handgun and rifle... and what constitutes a short-barrel removed so we don't have to navigate the depths of "if it starts out as a rifle, it can never be a pistol" bullshit that serves no purpose except to give more leverage to prosecutors if they happen to run across it as a byproduct of another crime. I have high hopes for HPA, and for the deregulation of SBR/SBS/AOW stuff to make that easier... but not on the cold tip of a witch's titty will full-auto ever be OTC to the public again in this country.
If the NFA got repealed, you still have the limited quantity of 180,000'ish transferable weapons in the country... whose overnight triple in price will make them even more removed from ownership by the common man. Can you imagine being able to buy an auto-sear at Gander Mountain for $40 when an M-16 is currently in the $30k range? How soon before every gang-banger in the whole country is spraying 100rd drums? That **** will never pass.
For now, concentrate on the HPA... low-hanging fruit that the ATF is clearly supporting.
A petition is just a petition... raising awareness and expressing opinion.
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02-10-2017, 09:38 PM
#1620
I agree that full auto probably shouldn't be OTC, but most couldn't afford the ammo anyway... A possible scenario is a repeal of the NFA with 'replacement' legislation to keep full auto as a transfer item through ATF, but possibly removing the pre-1986 restriction on transferability. I'd be perfectly OK with that.
A petition is just a petition... raising awareness and expressing opinion.
A petition is just a petition... raising awareness and expressing opinion.
I'd love to have a select fire rifle, but I also admit that there isn't much purpose for it beyond "hold my beer" value.
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