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Old 06-16-2016, 12:32 PM   #1421
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Do not make Homie bust a RPG in yo ***.
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Old 06-16-2016, 01:08 PM   #1422
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hate crime.
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Old 06-16-2016, 02:04 PM   #1423
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oh i was just curious, because it just seemed to timely that a terrorist killed a bunch of people that we started talking about unrelated issues...
Yeah it's just a distraction. France and Belgium already have gun control a milllion times stricter than the US will ever have and they still have people running around with full auto AKs, handguns, etc. And despite the strict prohibitions on anything more menacing than a butter knife, all of these illegal weapons appear to be readily available even to refugees on a limited budget.

I guess the media figures that if this is a terrorism thing (which it obviously is) the great satan (R) will get a lead over the senator from goldman sachs (D). So they push every angle that could possibly help her avoid a slump in the polls.
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Old 06-16-2016, 02:21 PM   #1424
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I guess the media figures that if this is a terrorism thing (which it obviously is) the great satan (R) will get a lead over the senator from goldman sachs (D). So they push every angle that could possibly help her avoid a slump in the polls.
As a member of "the media", you have micro-aggressed me. I demand a safe space. Preferably one with cookies.



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Old 06-16-2016, 02:30 PM   #1425
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Cool trigger, bro. I love my Geissle. I can't pronounce the name of it, but I like it.

Is it
-guy-sull
-guys-lee
-guy-suh-lee
-gay-suh-lee
-gay-slee

Apologies if I triggered anyone. Hohoho.
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Old 06-16-2016, 03:28 PM   #1426
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Old 06-16-2016, 04:55 PM   #1427
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Here's your cookie, Joe:

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Old 06-16-2016, 08:10 PM   #1428
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Regarding the latest Senate debate... If your on a terrorist watch list, I'm guessing you probably don't know it. But when you are denied the opportunity to buy a gun wouldn't you now know it? I mean wouldn't there need to be a reason given for the denial of the 2nd amendment right. So now the affected "terrorist" would know they're on to him.
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Old 06-16-2016, 08:19 PM   #1429
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Originally Posted by bahurd View Post
Regarding the latest Senate debate... If your on a terrorist watch list, I'm guessing you probably don't know it. But when you are denied the opportunity to buy a gun wouldn't you now know it? I mean wouldn't there need to be a reason given for the denial of the 2nd amendment right. So now the affected "terrorist" would know they're on to him.
Perhaps. There are a surprisingly long list of reasons why you could fail a background check. At least one state keeps a list of known alcohol abusers and prevent them from buying guns (hint: it's a red state), so it's not a sure-fire giveaway. The alternative would be to allow the suspected terrorist to purchase a semi-automatic weapon. Which is worse?

Also, letting terrorists buy guns so we can keep an eye on them is almost literally what this whole mess was about. Seems like conservatives allowing someone on the terrorist watch list to purchase a weapon is a bit of a double standard.
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Old 06-16-2016, 10:33 PM   #1430
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Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
hate crime.
It sho ain' no love crime, boo!






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Originally Posted by bahurd View Post
Regarding the latest Senate debate... If your on a terrorist watch list, I'm guessing you probably don't know it. But when you are denied the opportunity to buy a gun wouldn't you now know it? I mean wouldn't there need to be a reason given for the denial of the 2nd amendment right. So now the affected "terrorist" would know they're on to him.
There was a period of about 3 years during which I was unable to use either online check-in or kiosk check-in to get my boarding pass for a flight. I had to show up extra early and wait in the "I'm a casual who doesn't understand how air travel works" line, and get my boarding pass from a human. This was extremely annoying, as it happened during a phase in my life in which I was getting on an airplane about once a week, on average. And, puzzlingly, it only affected about 2/3 of airlines. Through trial and error, I learned to only ever book on Delta, United, Continental, and Frontier.

No airline employee ever said to me "Your name* is on a government watch list", or even admitted that such a list existed, but of course it wasn't hard to figure out.
* = Mind you, "Jose Perez" is the Hispanic equivalent of "John Smith." There are a hell of a lot of us, and so it stands to reason that at least one of them has done something stupid.
Which sucked, really. Prior to 9/11, as a young Hispanic male flying on a one-way ticket purchased the day before, I always seemed to receive special attention at all phases of the checkin and boarding process. After 9/11, it was like a magical transformation. Suddenly, I no longer fit the profile! "Hispanic? Traveling on short notice? Lots of hard-sided checkin luggage? Ah, **** it- he's probably just smuggling drugs, endangered animals and stolen **** gold. Nothing you could hijack a plane with."

That state of grace lasted for about six years.
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Old 06-16-2016, 11:45 PM   #1431
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On a serious note, however:


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Old 06-17-2016, 02:24 AM   #1432
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That's very clever, but it's wrong. The founding fathers wanted individual citizens to be as heavily armed as soldiers, and they were familiar with the concept of rapid firing weapons. To wit:

"Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man gainst his own bosom. Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American.... [T]he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people." -Tenche ***

Back then, individuals owned warships, cannons and various weapons that were pretty close to machine guns. They didn't have fixed cartridges back then, but at the time of the second amendment's writing, they had the puckle gun, the belton flintlock and various volley guns. All of these were well known to the founders because they had just fought a war against the UK and were familiar with the state of the art in firearms. Organ guns were the retarded medieval ancestor of the modern machine gun and predate the 2nd amendment by several centuries. Keep in mind that US rifles (ie, rifled long arms as opposed to smoothbore muskets in common use by armies of the time) were the most rapid firing and accurate weapons on the planet and they were widely owned by US citizens. When you consider that colonial era citizens were better armed than the british army, how is it conceivable that the founders didn't contemplate ordinary US citizens owning the same or better weapons than the average rifleman in the marines or army?
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Old 06-17-2016, 02:27 AM   #1433
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A guy at work randomly got placed on the "list" a few months back. He went to pick up a gun he had ordered one day and now all of the sudden he can't pass a background check. He has hired multiple lawyers to get to the bottom of it, but no progress so far.
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Old 06-17-2016, 02:44 AM   #1434
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Yeah, the terror watch list is straight up bullshit. You can get put on it for badmouthing the TSA. Good luck getting off it if you aren't famous or politically connected.

The real problem here is that the FBI's number one concern is "don't get accused of islamophobia." The Orlando attack guy seemingly couldn't talk about anything except murdering infidels. Everyone that met the guy seems to have ended up reporting him to his employers and the FBI because he was so obviously nutty and dangerous. Even the first few gun stores seemed to have turned him down and called cops because he was obviously up to no good. The FBI investigated this guy 3 ******* times because of all the complaints. Martha Stewart got sent to federal prison after a quick conversation despite not having committed an actual crime (she was charged with a false statement, king of the chickenshit charges) but they couldn't find anything to pin on this ******* after three interrogations and several years of surveillance? They weren't ******* trying.
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Old 06-17-2016, 09:29 AM   #1435
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Originally Posted by AlwaysBroken View Post
That's very clever, but it's wrong. The founding fathers wanted individual citizens to be as heavily armed as soldiers, and they were familiar with the concept of rapid firing weapons. To wit:

"Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man gainst his own bosom. Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American.... [T]he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people." -Tenche ***

Back then, individuals owned warships, cannons and various weapons that were pretty close to machine guns. They didn't have fixed cartridges back then, but at the time of the second amendment's writing, they had the puckle gun, the belton flintlock and various volley guns. All of these were well known to the founders because they had just fought a war against the UK and were familiar with the state of the art in firearms. Organ guns were the retarded medieval ancestor of the modern machine gun and predate the 2nd amendment by several centuries. Keep in mind that US rifles (ie, rifled long arms as opposed to smoothbore muskets in common use by armies of the time) were the most rapid firing and accurate weapons on the planet and they were widely owned by US citizens. When you consider that colonial era citizens were better armed than the british army, how is it conceivable that the founders didn't contemplate ordinary US citizens owning the same or better weapons than the average rifleman in the marines or army?
Nice history lesson but I'd say "one of the founding fathers" not all of them. And your point about individuals owning warships is correct although at the time it was done because of the lack of money to form a proper navy. Which is on point to Joe Perez post above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chilicharger665 View Post
A guy at work randomly got placed on the "list" a few months back. He went to pick up a gun he had ordered one day and now all of the sudden he can't pass a background check. He has hired multiple lawyers to get to the bottom of it, but no progress so far.
One of my sons in law somehow ended up on the no-fly list shortly after the WTT were hit. In the hysteria of the moment seems some clerk somewhere decided this White male "bubba" from SC should be banned from flying. The hardest part was getting the govt to actually acknowledge the list existed and that "yes, you're on it". Lawyers and money solved it but not before he almost lost his job because it depended on traveling a lot.

I guess, to my original post, the reason that would be given to deny a gun purchase would be "Federally Denied Persons File" which seems to be the catch all.

Funny, this wouldn't have stopped the Orlando shootings. The guy was a legitimate citizen and his prior placement on the no fly list was cleared by the FBI.

So the only difference between Omar Mateen (Muslim) and Timothy McVeigh (Roman Catholic) was religion and method used.
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Old 06-17-2016, 09:34 AM   #1436
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I think you guys are missing the point of the image I posted. It illustrates the same retort being used against completely opposite claims, by people with extremist opinions at opposite ends of the spectrum.

Eg: it's ironic.
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Old 06-17-2016, 09:43 AM   #1437
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I think you guys are missing the point of the image I posted. It illustrates the same retort being used against completely opposite claims, by people with extremist opinions at opposite ends of the spectrum.

Eg: it's ironic.
I got your point.

Also, back then the colonists who took up arms against the King were considered terrorists no? Off point but relevant.
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Old 06-17-2016, 09:58 AM   #1438
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It wasn't "just one founding father." I gave one quote that illustrates the general sentiment of the times. The founding fathers disagreed as to methods for upkeep and training of the militia, but none of them had the modern sort of disagreements about whether everyone should be armed.

There was disagreement about the extent of training that congress should require of the militia (a power congress has over the militia from Article I). Hamilton believed that constantly training them (marching in formation, doing firing drills, etc) would be a pain in everyone's *** and that they should only require them to be armed and nothing else. A few people thought that congress shouldn't have been given the power to discipline the militia at all (because it could be subject to abuse) but even those people agreed everyone should be fully armed as if they were soldiers.

The modern conception of gun control came into being during the late 60s. Before 68, you could mail order nearly anything, including anti-tank weapons, grenade launchers and artillery. Machine guns in private hands didn't even become rare until the 90s, when the supply began drying up after the 86 ban. You could still buy submachine guns for a few hundred bucks back then. After the race riots in 68 (MLK got capped, everyone lost their minds, etc), a lot of places like NY and CA decided they needed a way to clamp down on firearm ownership by blacks and the rest is history. That's where we got the modern record keeping requirements (though the ammo record keeping requirement is gone), the FFL system and all the bans on interstate transfers. Places like NYC didn't like that blacks could just mail order something like a garand for 50 bucks without paying any heed to local rules. Obviously, it's a lot harder to abuse people when they can send a bunch of 30-06 your way.
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Old 06-17-2016, 09:59 AM   #1439
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Also, back then the colonists who took up arms against the King were considered terrorists no? Off point but relevant.
The term "terrorist" hadn't yet come into common use in the English language at the time of the American revolution. They'd likely have been referred to as traitors, in the sense of "one who commits treason."
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Old 06-17-2016, 10:47 AM   #1440
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I love all the Youtube clips where a video crew goes to colleges and ask random questions of people walking in the quad... really hard questions too, like "Who did we fight in the Revolutionary War?" and "Who won the Civil War?" and "Who is the current Vice President?"
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