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Old 07-18-2011, 06:34 PM   #41
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You guys do realize that mostly east/North east schools are union right? So is Kali. A lot of school districts and state are non union. Do not throw all "teachers" into the union mix. Tx is a non union state. Plus some choose to not join the optional unions because we do not like what the unions stand for.

Do not go thinking that all teachers get paid a kings ransom or get cut a government check because someone has bargained for them. I know I sure dont.
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Old 07-18-2011, 06:40 PM   #42
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also on the topic of charter schools/magnet schools (I went to the "magnet" HS for my district. It practicality has 100% passing state exams), they do not necessarily get higher scores because the public education system sucks but because they get the cream of the crop.

Think about it this way. Public ed is like clubroadster you get a bit of everything. The output is the same.

GT classes are like miata.net. A bit more mature and can get a lot more done.

MT is like the magnet school. You get all the cool things coming from here because the people (students/parents) give a care. Think of what these kids do to make the other websites/schools look good when they are there instead of just one "brainy" school. Think of what the sites/schools loose when they migrate to just one location.

It is not all the teachers fault.

Private schools (similar to charter schools) in some sense are another beast altogether. They do not have to accept you because the simply do not like you as a student, or because they do not want to service someones physical/mental impairment. They are private and do not have to follow the same rules on accepting people as public schools do.
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Old 07-20-2011, 03:46 PM   #43
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Old 07-21-2011, 03:23 PM   #44
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Ironing:

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While Nation Sputters on Jobs, Wisconsin Economy Begins to Hum

[Madison, Wisc…] Earlier this month, analysts were dismayed by the nation’s anemic job creation numbers. On Thursday, state officials were pleased as they released data that showed more than half of the net new jobs added in the US in June came from Wisconsin.

“We have made difficult decisions in our state, but they are beginning to payoff,” said Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker (R). “The national job figures remind us that we can not rest after one month of good news; while there will be ups and downs along the way, we must help lead the nation to recovery.”

Using seasonally adjusted data, the 12,900 private-sector jobs created in June marks the largest one-month gain in Wisconsin since September 2003. The state’s net new job gain for June is 9,500 jobs, more than half of the nation’s net gain of 18,000 jobs for the same month.
Yet, six GOP Senators who helped usher in a pro-business, pro-jobs environment now face recall because they dared to go against Big Labor. Go figure.
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Old 07-22-2011, 08:12 AM   #45
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Do not throw all "teachers" into the union mix. Tx is a non union state. Plus some choose to not join the optional unions because we do not like what the unions stand for.
A good point to be reminded of. Although, I would be really interested to see the number of teachers that opt out of a union (if they even get a choice) in a unionized school.

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Do not go thinking that all teachers get paid a kings ransom or get cut a government check because someone has bargained for them. I know I sure dont.
A) If you work for a public school, I am pretty positive that means that you do get cut a government check. Who pays your salary if not the local or state municipality?

B) I don't think anyone here believes primary school teachers get paid "a king's ransom." I do think that the critics of public school teacher unions believe that the unions do far more harm than good and that public unions are not at all like private sector unions.

As has been discussed before, private sector unions sit across from the company management and the two parties negotiate over splitting the profit pie.

Public sector unions sit alongside the politicians and try to negotiate for higher salaries and benefits which must come via tax increases. In effect, it then becomes union management + politicians versus taxpayers. That's totally dysfunctional.

It is also why seeing governors and other state politicians stand up to the public sector unions is so shocking.

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also on the topic of charter schools/magnet schools (I went to the "magnet" HS for my district. It practicality has 100% passing state exams), they do not necessarily get higher scores because the public education system sucks but because they get the cream of the crop[...]

It is not all the teachers fault.
A) I think there is validity to this point, but it's an oversimplification. It is also not a reason to argue against school choice.

B) I do not believe anyone here thinks a student's performance is "all the teacher's fault." I do believe that most here believe that there should be some form of performance-based recognition in promotion and pay. Those teachers that work harder and put more effort in should be rewarded greater than those that just show up and don't do anything outrageously egregious enough to get fired.

As with everything, though, "the devil is in the details" of how that performance is recognized.
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Old 07-22-2011, 09:57 AM   #46
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Hell no, we won't go!

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Any good community organizer knows an effective protest requires two things: a bully to excoriate and a catchy slogan that resonates in the public mind.

Even though most protestors are “uncomplicated” people, don’t be deceived; staging an effective rally is not a simple task.

First, a bully must be identified. For progressives, a bully is anybody who disagrees with you politically, so there is no shortage of candidates. However, as Saul Alinsky’s “Rules for Radicals” explains, it’s best to settle on one target to isolate and attack.

Next, protestors need to come up with a catchy slogan to shout at the designated bully. Most people don’t have the Rev. Jesse Jackson’s “gift” of reducing complex ideas into simplistic rhymes. This skill must be taught.

This charming six-part lesson plan is designed to stamp out (mostly) gender-based bullying from Pre-K all the way through 6th grade.

Most readers will agree that bullying is a problem and that teachers should talk to students about it in a thoughtful, reasonable manner.

But thought and reason are totally absent from the “Gender doesn’t limit you” lesson plans, which only provide children with a designated slogan to shout at suspected bullies.


Here’s an example from Lesson 4 – Biased Judgments:

To start the lesson, teachers are instructed to tell students that, “Sometimes one group of kids thinks that they are better at something than another group because of their gender.”

The teacher then tells students that whenever someone makes a highly offensive remark such as “boys are better at soccer than girls,” they should tell the offender, “Give it a rest. No group is best.”

Since repetition is crucial to the learning process, the plan provides teachers with four scenarios to read to students. After each one the class is instructed to shout, “Give it a rest. No group is best.”

Here’s one of the scenarios from Lesson 4:

(Teacher): “Paul and Vanessa are baking cookies together. Vanessa says that girls are better at baking than boys. What do we tell Vanessa? One, two, three GO!”

(Class): “Give it a rest, no group is best.”

That’s the extent of the lesson. Identify a bully (doesn’t that Vanessa sound like a monster?), give the kids a slogan to shout, and practice with a few scenarios.

It’s like that for each lesson, although the quality of the slogans varies. Here’s a Cliff’s Notes version of the lesson plans:

For the “Peer Exclusion” lesson, kids are instructed that “not letting someone play with you just because of their gender is called bullying….” Applicable slogan: “You can’t say, ‘Boys/Girls can’t play.’”

For the “Role Exclusion” lesson, students are told that, “Boys and girls can have any job they want to, or do any activities that they want.” If some insensitive lout attempts to define gender roles in the children’s presence, they are to say, “Not true! Gender doesn’t limit you.”

And so it goes for six lessons. Some of the remaining slogans include “That’s weird! Being boys and girls doesn’t matter here” and “I disagree! Sexism is silly to me.”

As you can see, the quality of the sloganeering fades with each lesson.

You can also see the “lessons” aren’t designed to develop critical thought or meaningful classroom discussions. In fact, the researchers who designed these lessons brag that “teaching students catchphrases to interrupt gender bullying” is far more effective than “using literature to challenge gender stereotypes.”

What this curriculum seems best designed for is to teach kids there’s a bully around every corner and the best way to handle him (and you just know it’s a “him”) is to shout clever slogans.

Sure, the kids whose school careers are frittered away with such tripe might not be prepared to enter the competitive world of work or college. But rest assured, these kids will know what to do when a bully like Scott Walker or Chris Christie tries to take away their seat on the government’s gravy train.

That’s right, these lesson plans will produce some wonderful union activists someday.

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Old 07-22-2011, 11:50 AM   #47
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A) If you work for a public school, I am pretty positive that means that you do get cut a government check. Who pays your salary if not the local or state municipality?
what I meant was that I dont pay someone directly to lobby for me.

Quote:
A) I think there is validity to this point, but it's an oversimplification. It is also not a reason to argue against school choice.

B) I do not believe anyone here thinks a student's performance is "all the teacher's fault." I do believe that most here believe that there should be some form of performance-based recognition in promotion and pay. Those teachers that work harder and put more effort in should be rewarded greater than those that just show up and don't do anything outrageously egregious enough to get fired.

As with everything, though, "the devil is in the details" of how that performance is recognized.
It is not an oversimplification. It is reality.
-If I taught at a magnet school I could be the worse teacher in the district and I would still have good numbers.

-What if I was the "best" teacher in the district and taught ESL first year students that were learning and showing growth but were forced to take 2~3 days of state testing completely in English. My "performance" would look horrible. (imagine taking a test completely in Kanji after only being in Japan for 8 months. You might have verbal, and some reading but you will not have the academic reading, neither the nuances to fully understand a test).
-Or lets change that to special needs students.
-Or lets change that to parents that have situations that force them to not be there to assist the student.

-What if I taught in a well to do suburban area vs. a poor title 1 school

Pay for performance would not/is not as fair as int the business world unless someone develops a way to measure "good" performance not based on test.
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Old 08-01-2011, 10:04 AM   #48
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Ex-Union Member Fights $200,000 Union Fine For Working Non-Union:

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Unions have rules. Union members who break those rules can be placed on trial by their union and, if found guilty, can be expelled or suspended from the union. They can also be fined, as Nathaniel Musser has learned the expensive way.



Musser, a former member of the Chicago Regional Council of Carpenters, according to his lawyer, could not find work through his union. So, as union members sometimes do, Musser found work on his own–at a non-union company.

As working non-union is against many trade unions’ rules, the Carpenters’ union filed internal union charges against Musser and imposed a $300,900.00 fine against Musser.
Although Musser appealed and the fine was later reduced to $200,850.00, Musser is also fighting the reduced fine as well.

According to ChicagoUnionNews.com, Musser is alleging in his court documents that the union maintained a policy that precluded members from resigning from the union.

“If he would have known about a way to resign, he would have resigned before he worked for a non-union employer,” [Musser's lawyer Stanley] Niew said.

Joe Heilgeist, identified in court papers as a business representative and organizer of Local 250, declined to comment and the attorney representing the union did not return phone calls.

Frank Libby, president of the Regional Council, said he was unfamiliar with this particular case but said the situation was common.

“It makes sense,” Libby said. “He went to work with a non-union contractor while he held membership. You can’t do that. . . . He made a conscious decision apparently to say the hell with the union.” [Emphasis added.]

Note: If you are an out-of-work construction trade union member, before you start working non-union, check your union constitution and local union bylaws. As a union member (in most trade unions), you can be placed on trial for working non-union.
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Old 08-01-2011, 11:06 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitlab77 View Post
-What if I was the "best" teacher in the district and taught ESL first year students that were learning and showing growth but were forced to take 2~3 days of state testing completely in English. My "performance" would look horrible. (imagine taking a test completely in Kanji after only being in Japan for 8 months. You might have verbal, and some reading but you will not have the academic reading, neither the nuances to fully understand a test).
-Or lets change that to special needs students.
-Or lets change that to parents that have situations that force them to not be there to assist the student.

-What if I taught in a well to do suburban area vs. a poor title 1 school

Pay for performance would not/is not as fair as int the business world unless someone develops a way to measure "good" performance not based on test.
Can I ask what subect(s) you teach? This seems so simple to me - in broad terms - as to be silly.

There are many ways to measure performance and they need not be mutually exclusive. Performance can be measured using both absolute and relative returns. Surely, between academia and the government, there must be enough statisticians and mathmeticians that they can come up with some formulas that vary weightings based on some simply defined characteristics like ESL and special needs.

An "F" school that moves to a "C" should be rewarded, as should an "A" school that maintains that level. A "C" school maintaining that level should not necessarily be rewarded.

Likewise, surely some "curving" can be applied to ESL and Special Needs students. I would argue that other demographics need not necessarily be accounted for if using a combination of relative and absolute performance.

Lowering standards for people is not the way to motivate them to do better.
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Old 08-01-2011, 07:27 PM   #50
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RE: Nathaniel Musser.

If his union really could not find him suitable union contract work, then surely they failed in their duty to him as a paid up member.
Counter sue for $1m for neglect of duty, failure to honour contract blah blah blah.

I am truly disgusted that your unions can hold it's members in "consenting" slavery. Be told who and where to work but can't be bothered to actually provide the work. to the unions.
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Old 08-02-2011, 11:29 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Scrappy Jack View Post
Can I ask what subect(s) you teach? This seems so simple to me - in broad terms - as to be silly.

There are many ways to measure performance and they need not be mutually exclusive. Performance can be measured using both absolute and relative returns. Surely, between academia and the government, there must be enough statisticians and mathmeticians that they can come up with some formulas that vary weightings based on some simply defined characteristics like ESL and special needs.

An "F" school that moves to a "C" should be rewarded, as should an "A" school that maintains that level. A "C" school maintaining that level should not necessarily be rewarded.

Likewise, surely some "curving" can be applied to ESL and Special Needs students. I would argue that other demographics need not necessarily be accounted for if using a combination of relative and absolute performance.

Lowering standards for people is not the way to motivate them to do better.
Currently math/science/and social studies.

Never did I say lowering anyone standards. It is just the the way that the educational system is set up under NCLB, scores are what is looked at. So is meeting AYP (annual Yearly Progress). But the standards are being ratcheted up each year to a point were even the magnet schools might have trouble passing. Trust me I want good teachers working besides me. You also have to remember things that seem so simple become ugly monsters when introduced into politics. There is so much to talk about it is not something that can be just written about on a message forum.

For example all these national test you here the US sucks at, well what they don't tell you is amongst the nations that do the best on them teach a curriculum aligned to the standards that those test teach. It does not mean that are kids aren't just as bright or educated. Or that other countries put students on career plans (eg. you will do lawns, you will be a Dr.) as early as middle school.

Education, and its guidelines rules etc, are a can of worms just as big as the debate you see over the economy on the news. I'm in grad school for educational administration and let me tell you the political red tape that is found is ridiculous.
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Old 08-03-2011, 11:50 AM   #52
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I forget what we are debating/discussing. I am for performance-based pay in nearly every field, including education. Imagine if the people at the DMV got paid based on a combination of how many people they served and the quality of that service rather than a base hourly wage.

Pitlab - Is your position that you are for performance-based pay for public school teachers, just not the current iteration? If so, what improvements would you offer?
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Old 08-05-2011, 11:17 AM   #53
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Old 08-12-2011, 10:18 AM   #54
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"The Guide for Integrating Issues of Social and Economic Justice into Mathematics Curriculum”
by Jonathan Osler

http://www.radicalmath.org/docs/SJMathGuide.pdf



The social justice crowd knows that many Americans still cling to the antiquated notion that math teachers should stick to teaching students about math and not politics. Osler answers that criticism by arguing:

“Our classrooms are politicized spaces before we walk in the door because political parties in our country are dictating what should and should not be happening in our classrooms. What we’re supposed to teach, and how we’re supposed to teach it, has been predetermined by someone with a political agenda. My goal is to provide my students with varied sources of information and support them in coming to their own conclusions.”

Osler isn’t finished. He concedes that math can be used to help people, but argues:

“ … [M]ore often it has been used to hurt them. Math was behind the development of nuclear weapons. It is used to maintain an economic divide between a handful of wealthy, White people and the billions of poor people of color around the world. It is used as a rationale for depriving people of access to cheap, life-saving drugs. So my question is: what good has the progress of mathematics as an intellectual discipline done for people? Maybe if our mathematics had a background in social justice, we wouldn’t have so many people suffering around the world.”

There was a time when math class existed to train the next generation of engineers and researchers. Now, math class is being used to inspire the next generation of social activists and community organizers.
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Old 08-19-2011, 09:37 AM   #55
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Another Indoctrination Friday:

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Many Americans reason that if the test covers the essential things kids need to know, then “teaching to the test” makes sense and wonder what all the fuss is about.

Frankly, I wondered that myself – until I came across “Teaching About Global Warming in Truck Country” by Jana Dean, an eighth grade science and social studies teacher in Washington state. Dean’s article is included in “Rethinking Our Classrooms: Teaching for Equity and Justice, Volume 1.”

In the article, Dean recounts the difficulty she had in selling students on the dangers of man-made global warming. Dean teaches in a rural community where most families still use trucks in their everyday activities. Early on in the global warming unit, one student asked if Dean was telling him he could never drive a truck like his father does.


Dean writes:
“ … When Alex first crossed his arms, I began to realize that indicting our beloved motors for global warming before building a ton of background would be like petting a cat in the wrong direction. At the same time, it was a sign that I was going in the right direction: Change doesn’t happen without resistance. … My upfront commitment to action had activated in my students a fear of losing a way of life they’d been raised to inherit. … I decided to carefully sidestep any mention of the causes of global warming until we thoroughly understood the effects.” (emphasis added)
In order to sufficiently scare the children, she used a curriculum developed by the Union of Concerned Scientists that links global warming to floods, droughts, heat waves, wildfires – basically anything weather-related. Then students learned how global warming is melting the polar ice caps and causing an increase in malaria and other diseases in tropical Africa.

Believing she had sufficiently primed the pump, Dean then “asked students to write about what concerned them most about global warming. As they shared aloud, I wrote down their worries on poster paper hung at the front of the class. The mood was somber. My students sat so still and silent we could hear each other swallow.”

“I thought that by then we might have been ready to look again at the causes of climate change,” Dean writes.

But instead of reaching for a science textbook, she reached for a video produced by Greenpeace that “bombards (viewers) with a message about our cars, our trucks, our factories, our consumption.” The film did not go over very well:
“As he put his notebook away, Ron slammed it shut and said, ‘I don’t get it. What are we gonna do? Stop driving?’ Consternation ran through the class. ‘What about my quad … my motorcycle … how will we get to school … too far to ride my bike.’ I had no answer.”
Dean “spent the next two weeks building science background,” which amounted to having students learn about greenhouse gases and how the manufacturing industry spews more greenhouse gases into the atmosphere with every product it makes. Dean writes:

“By the end of the period they saw greenhouse gases everywhere – in tailpipes of tractors, in stockyards, in the power behind the pump, in oil wells, in the manufacturing of hydraulic fluid, in the coal that powered the cement kiln.”

Like a good propagandist, Dean issued a call to action to her students, instructing them to find ways they could “combat global warming” within their families, their school, their country and the world at large. The class identified a variety of possible actions, from taking shorter showers to urging the passage of international treaties “to decrease dependence on fossil fuels.”

The lesson culminated in a recycling program Dean’s class established for the school.
“But the recycling project helped my middle school students see … how the actions we take collectively speak much louder than words. And I want my students to see themselves as agents in our world, rather than subject to it. They made a change in their school that will last much longer than their short stay in 8th grade. And they’ve established a climate of concern in their school that I can take further next year.” (emphasis added)
Not only has Dean crossed the line that separates teaching from propagandizing, but she spent almost a month’s worth of class time on her global warming unit, with the grand result being a few recycling bins placed around the school and a “climate of concern” among the students.

It is doubtful that Washington state’s standardized test asks students to explain how owning a truck helps contributes to global warming. That means in a nine-month school year, Dean only has eight months to teach the rest of the 8th grade science curriculum – the stuff that kids will actually be tested on.

It is clear that “teaching to the test” leaves less time for their social engineering lesson plans, which cramps the propagandists’ style in a major way.

Here’s how one social justice educator summed it up:
“Teachers who are pressured to teach towards an exam, or to teach from a textbook that their school district has chosen, find it very difficult to try anything non-traditional in their classrooms for fear of reprisal from their administration and concern that their students won’t pass high-stakes tests.”
Parents and taxpayers want kids to leave school with the knowledge and skills that will allow them to succeed in life. That stands in contrast to the progressives’ goal of creating a generation of good global citizens who are equipped to identify and combat the suffering caused by capitalism, which is the driving force behind most of the world’s greed, inequality and pollution.

Standardized tests are designed to measure math and reading skills, but they cannot measure a student’s commitment to social justice or disdain of the free market system. Suddenly the left’s hatred of standardized testing makes sense, doesn’t it?

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Old 08-25-2011, 02:00 PM   #56
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Two funny headlines:

Three of four [IL] state grads not ready for college, ACT scores show

http://www.suntimes.com/news/educati...ores-show.html

Quote:
Only 23 percent of Illinois’ 2011 high school graduating class — public and private — met college readiness standards in all four ACT subjects tested: English, reading, math and science.

Talks break down between teachers union and CPS over pay raise

http://www.suntimes.com/news/7222811...pay-raise.html

Teachers upset enough to ask for strike vote, union chief says

http://www.suntimes.com/news/cityhal...hief-says.html

Quote:
“We have teachers who have been extremely vilified for political purposes,’’
Faced with a tougher new bar for approving a strike, Lewis said she would only call for a strike vote if teachers came to her and requested it. But, given the disrespect and “loss of dignity” teachers feel, Lewis said, the likelihood of teachers wanting a strike vote is “very high.’’



While the kids suffer, the unions are getting ready to strike. let that be a lesson to you kids.
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Old 08-25-2011, 08:32 PM   #57
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It is unfortunate that all teachers and all public workers tend to get vilified to some degree because it detracts from the real issue.


Then again, this is politics. :(
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Old 08-25-2011, 08:46 PM   #58
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they shouldn't unionize, they work for me.


these two statements can be true:

1. teachers are kind, caring people.
2. teachers care about job security.

Last edited by Braineack; 08-26-2011 at 10:41 AM.
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Old 08-30-2011, 02:43 PM   #59
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Pitlab spotted:


Orange hair, hipster glasses.

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Old 08-30-2011, 02:46 PM   #60
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LOL @ hipsters.
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