ITT: Nerds Rejoice
07-06-2012, 01:13 PM
#22
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So, in all seriousness, what sort of practical, real-world ramifications is this likely to have for you & I?
I mean, I understand that it's a big deal for theoretical physicists, and I expect to see Dr. Sheldon Cooper making a fuss about it when season 6 starts airing in September, but is this discovery going to somehow help to build a more efficient solar cell, or prevent my cereal from getting soggy in milk?
I find an interesting contradiction in all this. During the '00s, it became increasingly popular to criticize NASA and manned space exploration in general on the grounds that it cost a lot of money and didn't really help to feed the hungry or anything like that.
Now, I realize that the bulk of the LHC was paid for by CERN rather than the US, but we're still talking about seven and a half billion Euro, which is a lot of money regardless of what color the bills are.
Then you add in the salaries and grants paid to all the researches around the world who get to sit around all day hypothesizing about whether or not some little thing exists that we'll never actually get to see.
It's essentially just philosophy on a massive scale.
So, why is nobody protesting what a waste of money this is?
I mean, I understand that it's a big deal for theoretical physicists, and I expect to see Dr. Sheldon Cooper making a fuss about it when season 6 starts airing in September, but is this discovery going to somehow help to build a more efficient solar cell, or prevent my cereal from getting soggy in milk?
I find an interesting contradiction in all this. During the '00s, it became increasingly popular to criticize NASA and manned space exploration in general on the grounds that it cost a lot of money and didn't really help to feed the hungry or anything like that.
Now, I realize that the bulk of the LHC was paid for by CERN rather than the US, but we're still talking about seven and a half billion Euro, which is a lot of money regardless of what color the bills are.
Then you add in the salaries and grants paid to all the researches around the world who get to sit around all day hypothesizing about whether or not some little thing exists that we'll never actually get to see.
It's essentially just philosophy on a massive scale.
So, why is nobody protesting what a waste of money this is?
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07-06-2012, 01:37 PM
#23
Because we don't even understand what it is. How can you possibly protest against something that you can't even begin to comprehend!?
This is why I asked my previous question:
If this is the beginning of perpetual motion machines, then I'm super excited, but if this is nothing more than a discovery that will go into some graduate school text book, then WTF?
This is why I asked my previous question:
If this is the beginning of perpetual motion machines, then I'm super excited, but if this is nothing more than a discovery that will go into some graduate school text book, then WTF?
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07-06-2012, 02:28 PM
#24
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I'd wager that a minority of those people who are protesting anything related to nuclear power on any given day actually comprehend either:
- The inner workings of a modern nuke plant, or
- The relative magnitude of environmental and health damage which has been caused by all of the nuclear accidents which have ever occurred in the whole world combined, relative to the harm caused in a single year by the "normal" operation of power plants which operate on the only present-day feasible alternative for baseline power generation, which is coal.
At any rate, I'm not even talking about "protest" in the form of carrying signs and chanting hippy songs at the moon. I'm speaking more to the "experts" (academics) and the talking heads on TV whose job it is to "analyze" and "question" matters of economic policy.
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07-06-2012, 04:33 PM
#25
God Particle Discovered
"One of the most important discoveries in particle physics of the last 25 years has possibly just been made by experimentalists at CERN, the giant laboratory just outside of Geneva on the border of Switzerland and France. Scientists there think that they have discovered the Higgs field, also nicknamed the "God particle" by Nobel laureate Leon Lederman who wrote a book with that title."
"One of the most important discoveries in particle physics of the last 25 years has possibly just been made by experimentalists at CERN, the giant laboratory just outside of Geneva on the border of Switzerland and France. Scientists there think that they have discovered the Higgs field, also nicknamed the "God particle" by Nobel laureate Leon Lederman who wrote a book with that title."
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07-06-2012, 04:49 PM
#27
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Well, that's the thing, no one knows. Maybe nothing. But then again, it could be a catalyst to many other discoveries and could lead to exciting inventions and innovations in the future. I'm sure there are plenty of discoveries one could look back on where people at the time saw no immediate payoff, or could even perceive a possible use. But in time, who knows. I mean, this is more than just something minor. It's the particle thought to impart mass to... everything. I guess the quantum part of the Higgs Field? Particle physics is really almost pointless to discuss the finer points to anyone not a particle physicist. It's such a complicated and nearly uncomprehendable subject of discussion. Bottom line, it's important. I hate seeing the "why is this important to me, it can't do anything for me today" argument. So narrow minded and selfish.
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07-06-2012, 04:52 PM
#28
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My curiosity is simply as to why "the public" and "the media" seem to be exhibiting this selective bias in what they choose to condemn and what the choose to ignore.
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07-09-2012, 04:43 PM
#34
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When Mendeleev discovered the periodic table, nobody knew what chemistry would allow us to do in everyday life. When Rutherford discovered the nucleus, he was just trying to understand how things were put together, but for better worse, we found things to do with nuclei. We can get energy from them because we mastered the physics that explains to us how nuclear physics work.
This is the same kind of thing that one could imagine doing with the particles—this is the next phase. But all of these applications took 30 to 50 years. It’s still 10 years in our future before we begin to learn all the Large Hadron Collider can teach us about particle physics, and then we can begin to explore applications.
This is the way science and engineering have worked together for hundreds of years, going back to Newton with an apple falling on his head. Once we understand the principles, we find applications. I’m firmly convinced that we will find something, whether it will be science-fiction like warp drives, anti-matter, I don’t know. But understanding how it all fits together is the first step.
This is the same kind of thing that one could imagine doing with the particles—this is the next phase. But all of these applications took 30 to 50 years. It’s still 10 years in our future before we begin to learn all the Large Hadron Collider can teach us about particle physics, and then we can begin to explore applications.
This is the way science and engineering have worked together for hundreds of years, going back to Newton with an apple falling on his head. Once we understand the principles, we find applications. I’m firmly convinced that we will find something, whether it will be science-fiction like warp drives, anti-matter, I don’t know. But understanding how it all fits together is the first step.
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07-09-2012, 05:27 PM
#35
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Perhaps ironically, most of the member nations of CERN do face insolvency risks. Meanwhile, the USA faces virtually no chance of insolvency, but we eliminate the kind of investment in big, grandiose scientific research like this that may not have viable commercial applications for decades because we are afraid we "are going bankrupt" or "we can't afford it."
Much better to have the best and brightest minds from our universities focused on becoming the next big financial wizard or K-street law partner where the private sector will immediately recognize their worth with massive incomes versus something silly and intangible like particle physics, am I right guys?
Much better to have the best and brightest minds from our universities focused on becoming the next big financial wizard or K-street law partner where the private sector will immediately recognize their worth with massive incomes versus something silly and intangible like particle physics, am I right guys?
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