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Old 07-05-2012, 03:55 PM   #241
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Can't we just repeal the election of 2008?
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Old 07-05-2012, 03:57 PM   #242
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Can't we just repeal the election of 2008?
Right after 2004 and 2000.
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Old 07-05-2012, 05:59 PM   #243
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more: For tax years after 2017, a 40% nondeductible excise tax will be levied on insurance companies and plan administrators for any health coverage plan to the extent that the annual premium exceeds $10,200 for single coverage and $27,500 for family coverage.
So this sounds like a tax on "Cadillac" health insurance plans, which are tax deductible to the employer and sometimes used as a non-salary or non-commission based form of compensation. Does that sound right?
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Old 07-05-2012, 06:02 PM   #244
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correct. it is the Cadillac tax as people refer to it.
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Old 07-05-2012, 06:09 PM   #245
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My Dads solution to health insurance is to not have any. Instead he puts the money he would spend on healthcare into a million dollar life insurance policy and is counting on kicking the bucket before he is 65~70. If he ends up in the hospital they cant refuse him healthcare because he doesn't have insurance. Playin' the system while he still can.
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Old 07-06-2012, 10:31 AM   #246
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correct. it is the Cadillac tax as people refer to it.
Isn't that one of the "conservative" ideas? Reduce the reliance/favoritism on employer-sponsored health insurance plans and provide for more transparent compensation? i.e. Close/shrink a tax code "loophole" and simplify taxation?
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Old 07-06-2012, 11:52 AM   #247
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i dunno. I thought was just a tax on people receiving badass health care plans from employers, like well paid CEOs.

But IIRC, I remember reading something about high level union leaders being able to keep "cadalliac" health care plans without being levied an excise tax.

I believe the tax gets levied against the employer as well, so it's going to discourage employers from offering to pay over $10,000 a year for employees health care plans.


I do realize the more employers pay on health care the less the have to pay in taxes, so wouldn't the best way to remove "loopholes" (which are perfectly legal and written as laww) would be not to tax something else to discourage a company from paying a tax, but to i dunno, remove the "loophole?"

I honestly don't see how this tax does anything but hurt the people/compaines that can afford to give their employees awesome coverage and do little else to benefit anything/one else.

Last edited by Braineack; 07-06-2012 at 12:05 PM.
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Old 07-09-2012, 03:09 PM   #248
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alternative: accident insurance - to cover health related expenses related to non-recurring injuries. Car accident? Badly sprained ankle? it's covered. pre-existing condition? chronic illness? not covered under base insurance. This protects people from bankruptcy in the event of a significant unexpected event. I propose that the threat of bankruptcy is the #1 reason that HSAs haven't caught on in this country like wildfire.

You want to be insured for those other things? That's where you start adding (and paying for) additional options to your plan.

If HSAs become a popular method for paying for health related expenses, price information will naturally become more perfect, as doctors begin to post prices for common procedures in order to show how much money you can save by going to doctor A vs. doctor B. If that happens, "fraudulent prices" (where a doctor will charge 2,000 for a procedure, but the insurance company determines he's only going to get 400) will go away, and doctors will begin by charging 400 for the procedure instead of 2000. Soon, docs will be charging 375, and 350, and 325 just to try to get more patients...

...lastly, when people start paying for their own routine health expenses, the demand for doctors will fall sharply - I'm certainly not going to go see a doctor for the common cold - or an ankle sprain... as the demand falls for doctors, we'll have another sharp decrease in pricing. Too many doctors with too few patients, and they're going to start marginalizing their own profits just to stay in business. You'll probably have doctors offices issuing out their own loyalty cards - "visit us 3 times, and the 4th visit is free!" - or providing incentives - "free cholesterol checkup with any doctor visit!"

IMO, modern day doctors should be vilified based on how much profit a decently sized practice can make. They're on about the same level as teacher's unions and homeowner's associations as far as I'm concerned.
i agree with you on the accident insurance bit. it would be lots cheaper to pay for accident only policy versus a policy that covers everything. i pay 843/mo for family coverage and it is money wasted every month. a routine physical at the doc's cost 100 dollars cash...sick call is about the same depending on what he has to do. i rather pay 300 or so a year plus a smaller accident only insurance than the current 10k/year to only use about 300 dollars worth of healthcare.

i have to disagree with you on vilifying doctors though. i realize that healthcare is very expensive but a rather large chunk of what you are paying is because of malpractice insurance. it is ungodly expensive and they pass the cost onto the customer. also...medicare and medicaid drive up the cost of healthcare. by law the doc has to charge regular patients no less than he charges medicare and medicaid patients, in essence the government is price fixing healthcare costs.
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Old 07-09-2012, 03:18 PM   #249
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Good deal we pay the Oboma team to pass a law then we pay someone else to repeal it.. Sure glad it doesn't work like that in the business world
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Old 07-09-2012, 03:31 PM   #250
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Good deal we pay the Oboma team to pass a law then we pay someone else to repeal it.. Sure glad it doesn't work like that in the business world
I dont understand the comment...
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Old 07-09-2012, 03:43 PM   #251
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Exactly. We know that they can do this, because they are doing it and nobody is stopping them.
and nobody is stopping it because the population has grown stupid. most of the public has little knowledge of the constitution and the bill of rights, no one wants to go up against the government machine in fear of retribution. not to mention in our politically correct world you would be labelled a racist, bigot, woman and child hater by the lefties.
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Old 07-09-2012, 03:58 PM   #252
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This is a victory for every citizen.
there is no victory here...you will see...the constitution has been kicked in the *****. at best the only ones that benefit are the leaches of society.
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Old 07-09-2012, 04:03 PM   #253
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A friend of mine just posted this. A fairly persuasive argument, actually...I'm struggling to respond to it.
it is only partially correct. numbers-wise that makes sense. what is important here is that scotus has now made a precedence in allowing the government to use tax as a punishment and or as a way of coercing citizens into complying with an unconstitutional law. notice that in the wording of the law they never called it a tax, they called it a fine, it was scotus who said it could be construed as a tax.
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Old 07-09-2012, 04:06 PM   #254
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im telling you man, work mandates will save the country!
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Old 07-09-2012, 04:09 PM   #255
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well they sure are working on mandates....mandate our way into a new soviet union
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Old 07-09-2012, 04:11 PM   #256
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bro, get a job or no tax rebate for you.
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Old 07-09-2012, 04:14 PM   #257
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hell i think nowadays you are better off being a bum. free housing, free healthcare, subsidized utilities, food stamps...
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Old 07-09-2012, 04:16 PM   #258
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you forgot free cell phones and internet.
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Old 07-09-2012, 04:17 PM   #259
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+1.

I don't understand how it can violate the commerce section and still be constitutional; I know I don't care to pay for healthcare to people who didn't make their health a priority.
its a game, that's all, its all in the interpretation. when they called the mandate a tax it was like saying the government is not forcing you to buy the insurance and therefore not be in violation of interstate commerce law...
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Old 07-09-2012, 04:18 PM   #260
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you forgot free cell phones and internet.
i sure did...they get that free too don't they
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