My money... - Page 4 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Current Events, News, Politics Keep the politics here.

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11-04-2010, 02:33 PM   #61
Elite Member
iTrader: (12)
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Central-ish VA
Posts: 4,449
Total Cats: 16
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverant View Post
Out of curiosity, what's the average spending per month for you single guys over there? Rent/bills/insurance/food/commute? Married with children need not apply.
Debts:
My share of rent: $475
I pay all the utilities (nat gas, water, elec, trash): ~$300
Car insurance (also pay my brother's car insurance): ~$230
Car payment on Insight (will PIF soon): $247
Gas for commute: ~$200
Internetz (25/25 FIOS FTW): $60
Student loans (UGHHhhhh...!!!): ~$870
Pay for my mom's medications: $100
Food: $200-300

Total Debts: ~$2682
neogenesis2004 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2010, 07:01 PM   #62
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,454
Total Cats: 80
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by y8s View Post
so lets say you axe social security.. you no longer spend 730B.

but you also no longer collect 934B.
As someone pointed out, your balances above are not accurate.

The original deal with Lyndon Johnson was that this money would be set aside. IOW the money YOU put in is the money YOU take out.

Instead it went into the general fund, and got spent, and current payers fund current retirees. The big problem here is that in the past, we had 5 payers for 1 retiree but now, pretty soon, we'll be at 2 is to 1.

The voters WILL eventually stiff the oldsters. I say it's the oldsters' fault for letting the gov't spend their SS retirement money.
JasonC SBB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2010, 07:08 PM   #63
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,454
Total Cats: 80
Default

Additonally

Accounting trick that hides the extra debt from Social Security and Medicare.

http://www.geldpress.com/2008/07/us-...ing-deception/

The last year when the government ran a surplus for a given year was 1957. No, Clinton did not run a surplus (he came close though).

The last time there was no debt was under President Andrew Jackson.

“The US government debt is broken down and reported in 2 components:

1) Debt held by the public

2) Intragovernmental holdings

The number that matters is the TOTAL of the two components above!

The SS and Medicare debt is hidden in #2.


Before going further, let’s take a step back and consider the analogy of an 4 member household. Jack and Jill are married and have two kids. Together they have a total income of $65,000, but expenses are high and they spend a total of $70,000 per year. The annual budget deficit of this household is $5,000, which they finance on 2 credit cards – Jack’s Visa and Jill’s Mastercard. During the past year year, Jack paid down his Visa balance by $1000 (surplus) but Jill increased the balance of the family mastercard by $6000 (deficit). CNN ignores the Mastercard and reports a $1000 budget surplus for the Jack and Jill family!

Back to the United States. Why do they separate the total US debt into two components – debt held by the public and intragovernmental holdings? It’s because the current demographics of the United States make it convenient for them to hide the truth of their Enron style accounting from the American Public:

In 1960 there were 5.1 workers paying into social security for every 1 worker collecting a benefit. That ratio is gradually declining and is expected to hit 2.1 workers per retiree by the year 2032. The current demographics of the United States are causing social security surpluses, but over time those surpluses will turn into deficits.”


Here is the debt, including SS and Medicare.

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

The overwhelming chunk is the unfunded liabilities of SS and Medicare. This is the anvil that breaks the camel’s back.

It's over $100 TRILLION. That's $353,000 per citizen.


The debt is unpayable.

Congress has been kicking the can down the road forever; this is unsustainable. It’s not a question of if, it’s a question of when. I think it’s becoming clearer that “when” is now “in a few years”.


Historian Niall Ferguson warns of sudden collapse of American empire.

Historically it occurs when the interest on the debt approaches military expenditure. It can happen very suddenly if interest rates that the gov’t pays on the debt, rises abruptly. The turning point could be in the year 2012~2015.


http://www.aspendailynews.com/section/home/141349

Here is Ferguson's original article. It is quite insightful. EMPIRES collapse very suddenly:

http://www.niallferguson.com/site/FE...spx?pageid=226

And his talk at the Aspen Institute – this video is worth watching. Pay attention to what he says about the USA’s loss of legitimacy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mS3v768eTmw

He's a multi-millionaire, economic historian, and an ex-chairman of the CFR, a very high powered, exclusive group of industrialists and politicians.


Most likely the gov’t will do a combination of the following:
- move out the retirement age

- reduce benefits

- inflate the currency

- under-report inflation to reduce real payouts

- increase taxes

- reduce tax breaks
JasonC SBB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2010, 07:38 PM   #64
AFM Crusader
iTrader: (18)
 
olderguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Wayne, NJ
Posts: 4,438
Total Cats: 84
Default

They just started inflating the currency
olderguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2010, 08:02 PM   #65
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,454
Total Cats: 80
Default

Buy gold and silver.
JasonC SBB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2010, 08:32 PM   #66
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,847
Total Cats: 1,788
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by olderguy View Post
They just started inflating the currency
didnt you vote for roosevelt?
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2010, 09:43 PM   #67
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Little Rock, AR
Posts: 3,109
Total Cats: 127
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
Buy gold and silver.

Bingo, keep nothing in the bank. I think this ship is sinking and I intend to preserve my wealth. The dollar only has value until the majority of people think it doesn't. Then it comes down to what you own, guns, ammo, silver, gold, food, gas, etc.
jacob300zx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2010, 02:52 AM   #68
Boost Pope
Thread Starter
iTrader: (8)
 
Joe Perez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago (Over two miles from Wrigley Field. Fuck the Cubs. Fuck them in their smarmy goat-hole.)
Posts: 26,317
Total Cats: 1,914
Default

You really think that gold is going to continue to inflate without end?
Joe Perez is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2010, 10:13 AM   #69
AFM Crusader
iTrader: (18)
 
olderguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Wayne, NJ
Posts: 4,438
Total Cats: 84
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
didnt you vote for roosevelt?
Both of them.
olderguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2010, 10:27 AM   #70
Crumple Zone Tester
iTrader: (7)
 
mgeoffriau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Jackson, MS
Posts: 7,656
Total Cats: 447
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by olderguy View Post
Both of them.
Yup. FDR catches all the heat from right-wingers, but Teddy did nearly as much damage. I'd rather drink a beer with Teddy than FDR, but he was still an activist, over-reaching, strong-government central planner.

EDIT: I realize I'm skipping over the age joke. Just wanted to point that out about Teddy.
mgeoffriau is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2010, 11:44 AM   #71
Crumple Zone Tester
iTrader: (7)
 
mgeoffriau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Jackson, MS
Posts: 7,656
Total Cats: 447
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
Here's a little food for thought for the "tax the poor" crew: A majority of people, including a majority of rich people (250k+/yr), think that rich people should be taxed to reduce the deficit.

http://www.quinnipiac.edu/x1295.xml?ReleaseID=1438

Question 49. Do you think - raising income taxes on households making more than $250,000
...should or should not be a main part of any government approach to the deficit?

Households making >250k/yr: 64% YES
Households making 100-250k/yr: 51% YES
Households making 50-100k/yr: 61% YES
Households making <50k/yr: 64% YES
Been thinking about this...something bothered me about it, but couldn't figure out what.

Then it finally struck me -- polls are fine, but ultimately the elections are the only poll that matters. If people vote for candidates who are openly against "progressive" tax schemes, doesn't that indicate their actual priorities more than their answers to a poll question?
mgeoffriau is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2010, 11:59 AM   #72
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,847
Total Cats: 1,788
Default

how about a poll questions like this:

Question 1. Do you think - raising income taxes on households making more than $250,000
...will or will not make any effect of any government reduction to the deficit?

give this to economists only.
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2010, 12:51 PM   #73
AFM Crusader
iTrader: (18)
 
olderguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Wayne, NJ
Posts: 4,438
Total Cats: 84
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mgeoffriau View Post
Yup. FDR catches all the heat from right-wingers, but Teddy did nearly as much damage. I'd rather drink a beer with Teddy than FDR, but he was still an activist, over-reaching, strong-government central planner.

EDIT: I realize I'm skipping over the age joke. Just wanted to point that out about Teddy.
It was ONLY for the joke. Had I been around I would have voted against them both.
olderguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2010, 03:33 PM   #74
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Little Rock, AR
Posts: 3,109
Total Cats: 127
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
You really think that gold is going to continue to inflate without end?
Your missing the point, its not silver/gold inflating its your paper money. All though silver has had a super return since this summer 17-26 per once. If you think that the inflation rate per year is crazy or that an economic collpase is possible then read on.

1.The inflation multiplier for the last 50 years is around 7. So everything on average is 7 times more expensive than 1960. You would have to make that 100k nest egg into 700k just to break even.

2. Silver cost .91 per oz in 1960, gold cost 35.27. Silver is at 26.65 and gold at 1394.80 as of 1pm CT confirmed by kitco.com.

3. That 1960 100k if invested in PM's would be worth 2,928,571.00 today, gold 3,954,635.00.

4. Gold and Silver have been currency since 2000 BC, paper 1200 AD. Every paper sytem has failed leaving the paper money worthless. The gold/silver still had value.

5. Gold and silvers historic ratio is 16:1.

Lets think about a couple of items relative to PM's. How is the current printing and QE going to relate to future inflation? How does the USA compare to other countries that have financially collapsed (Dept vs GDP). If the US dollar collapses will the rest of the worlds paper money collapse as well? What will retain value in the event of a economic collapse? Not to be a conspiricy nut but something is brewing and looking at the figures above where would you rather have your wealth stored?

Edit: I'm not challenging your intelect or manhood, but from reading Jason SSB's posts I believe we are on the same page. I think this is a serious topic that should be discussed. I'm sure either of us could reply to any objection you have to this thinking. I've literally been researching this topic for 2 years now, besides racing its my hobby. This is just the tip of the iceberg, if you do your homework and think there is any chance that we might have a financial collapse in the near future, there are many lifestyle changes you can make to help insure your life/wealth that have minimal downsides if nothing happens.

Last edited by jacob300zx; 11-05-2010 at 03:53 PM.
jacob300zx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2010, 03:43 PM   #75
Crumple Zone Tester
iTrader: (7)
 
mgeoffriau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Jackson, MS
Posts: 7,656
Total Cats: 447
Default

I'd be more interested in seeing a series of 10, 20, and 30 year splits on the value of gold compared to currency inflation than over a 50 year period.
mgeoffriau is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2010, 03:43 PM   #76
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,847
Total Cats: 1,788
Default

Andrew Jackson hates being on a federal note.
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2010, 03:46 PM   #77
mkturbo.com
iTrader: (24)
 
shuiend's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Charleston SC
Posts: 13,775
Total Cats: 1,106
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
Andrew Jackson hates being on a federal note.
True story, olderguy told me he heard it from Jackson himself.
shuiend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2010, 07:52 PM   #78
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,454
Total Cats: 80
Default

jacob300zx, yes, what's happened is that:

1) we had the biggest economic bubble burst since the Great Depression, due to the unprecedented bubble forming inflation by Greenspan; this always leads to bubble pops

2) The religion of the central bankers, politicians, and most economists, Keynesianism, says that to cure the problem caused by too much money and credit creation ... is more money creation (inflation).

3) Almost all western governments are on the debt train wreck to default because of the expansion of the welfare state - politicians promised, voters believed - whilst believing the Keynesian line that deficit spending cures all.

So all the major central banks will be inflating. The FED just announced QE2. Gold and silver will go up. In about 2 years when despite this "stimulus" the unemployment rate is still high, maybe people will start realizing the Keynesian emperor has no clothes...

Given that the FED had doubled the monetary base (aka "high powered money") in order to bail out the Banksters, and has now announced more, this means that if and when the economy recovers such that commercial banks begin to lend to small businesses, the money multiplier will kick in, and we get mass inflation (circa 10% per year for several years), until the USD has eroded to less than half its value. Then it will be time to convert that silver and gold into business investment, or real estate, etc.

Joe, inflation *dilutes* the money supply, and gold doesn't go up, currency goes down.

Last edited by JasonC SBB; 11-05-2010 at 08:03 PM.
JasonC SBB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2010, 09:44 PM   #79
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Little Rock, AR
Posts: 3,109
Total Cats: 127
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
jacob300zx, yes, what's happened is that:

Joe, inflation *dilutes* the money supply, and gold doesn't go up, currency goes down.

ding ding, I new you were on board buddy
jacob300zx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2010, 10:52 AM   #80
AFM Crusader
iTrader: (18)
 
olderguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Wayne, NJ
Posts: 4,438
Total Cats: 84
Default

Another sector heard from:

http://www.wimp.com/crisescapitalism/
olderguy is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
6 speed bellhousing replaceable? Twodoor Suspension, Brakes, Drivetrain 9 07-04-2014 07:27 AM
Sticking it to the man Joe Perez Insert BS here 196 04-09-2014 06:02 PM
Does Layaway have a purpose? skidude Insert BS here 21 12-14-2011 07:59 PM
1994 Miata - $1200 (Humble) mgeoffriau Miata parts for sale/trade 18 09-14-2010 11:19 AM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:49 PM.