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Old 05-23-2011, 01:40 PM   #1
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Default The police have militarized, you should be afraid

http://abcnews.go.com/US/tucson-swat...ry?id=13640112

Tucson SWAT Team Defends Shooting Iraq Vet 60 Times


"We were so worried when he was over there fighting terrorism, but he gets shot in his own home," Ortiz said. "The government killed one of their own."
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Old 05-23-2011, 02:36 PM   #2
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I'm sure the police were acting in self defense all sixty times they fired.

And a "multi-house warrant?" I thought they needed probable cause to get judge to sign a search warrant. Seems to me probable cause would involve specific knowledge...or just being friendly with the judge so that the cops can go kicking in every door on a city block on a fishing expedition. It sure is good to be a judge and be above the ******* law. I hope ************* swing for this but know they won't.
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Old 05-23-2011, 02:41 PM   #3
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they fired 71 times, only hit 60. then prevented paramedics from seeing him.
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Old 05-23-2011, 02:44 PM   #4
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They prevented paramedics from seeing him? 71 shots fired?


Wow.
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Old 05-23-2011, 02:46 PM   #5
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yeah, but he could of had drugs! worth it.

this is what happens when you wage war on things (ig, poverty, drugs, AIDs, terrorism) and then expect the local police to do something about it, then when it gets out of hand, you just teach them miltary tactics and let them go to town.
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Old 05-23-2011, 02:50 PM   #6
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Why not just toss a grenade through the window killing the wife and son too?
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Old 05-24-2011, 11:54 AM   #7
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Massive overkill for sure... Hopefully for the police's sake they find something besides weapons and body armor to justify that kind of showing. Also, majorly nice job on saying he fired first then retracting that statement. D'oh!
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Old 05-24-2011, 12:04 PM   #8
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Wow! I agree with the lawyer's statement... "Pieces just don't fit"
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Old 05-24-2011, 01:28 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turotufas View Post
Why not just toss a grenade through the window killing the wife and son too?
Because Guerena was the only one pointing an assault rifle at the SWAT team. The wife and child did not pose an immediate threat to the officers.

Stories like this **** me off. We know precisely jack **** about the specifics of the warrant, the exact situation at the house that night, or what was actually said and done by either the officers or the suspect. I'm pretty sure that if I were serving a warrant on someone and they started threatening to shoot me with a rifle from a second-story window, I'd probably be inclined to eliminate that threat as well.


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They prevented paramedics from seeing him? 71 shots fired?
Storie defended the long delay in allowing paramedics to enter the home, saying of the SWAT team, "They still don't know how many shooters are inside, how many guns are inside and they still have to assume that they will be ambushed if they walk in this house."
That seems like a reasonable precaution to me, given that they'd just had the Gunfight at the O.K. Corral in there.
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Old 05-24-2011, 01:36 PM   #10
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That seems like a reasonable precaution to me, given that they'd just had the Gunfight at the O.K. Corral in there.
This I do agree with... If he got shot 60 times, he was fucked anyways if we are honest here. The thing that gets me is that he was shot 60 times and his rifle selector was still set on 'safe'. Yes, it is intimidating to see someone pointing a gun at you, but imagine being in his situation... I know if I had a wife and kids and they saw someone outside the window pointing a gun at them, my rifle/handgun wouldn't have had the selector on 'safe'.
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Old 05-24-2011, 02:08 PM   #11
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Joe, regarldess of the threat, I'm pretty sure it's not common practice to unload on a house from outside. This isn't Die Hard. and they found nothing of interest inside the house.

I guess it isn't an unreasonable search if they kill you first?

We dont know if the police identified themselves when they saw the guy, they obviously didn't serve the warrant beforehand. I imagine one of the officers who happened to be securing the perimieter, saw him and opened up. Then the rest followed suit to see who could unload their clips faster.
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Old 05-24-2011, 02:10 PM   #12
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how long does it take to clear a house?
If a cop was shot...about 30 seconds. Since it was just a lowly civilian, over an hour.
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Old 05-24-2011, 02:21 PM   #13
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reading a diffferent article it seems they breached the door and he was standing there with his rifle and they opened up on him. who knows.
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Old 05-24-2011, 02:26 PM   #14
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reading a diffferent article it seems they breached the door and he was standing there with his rifle and they opened up on him. who knows.
Sounds like it. I see it as: SWAT breaks in, wife shouts, husbands comes out with the "assault weapon", he is seen with said weapon, and gets a lead salad.

Sad story. Cops
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Old 05-24-2011, 02:33 PM   #15
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should have gone for the tossed salad.
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Old 05-24-2011, 02:37 PM   #16
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should have gone for the tossed salad.
Some are into that. I preferably like it with jelly, but it makes me giggle.
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Old 05-24-2011, 02:38 PM   #17
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I just find it ironic that they claimed he fired first then retracted the statement... That's my key gripe that it seems like they were trying to find a way to justify it.
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Old 05-24-2011, 02:39 PM   #18
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of course after that they decided to stop releasing anymore info to the public, not untill they get a story straight.
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Old 05-24-2011, 03:33 PM   #19
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of course after that they decided to stop releasing anymore info to the public, not untill they get a story straight.
This!
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Old 05-24-2011, 03:51 PM   #20
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of course after that they decided to stop releasing anymore info to the public, not untill they get a story straight.
+2
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