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Old 03-07-2012, 05:57 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
"Ok, go be a sovereign nation, don't forget to write"
lol'd
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Old 03-07-2012, 06:00 PM   #102
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Old 03-08-2012, 11:26 AM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
es"[/I] is not a realistic plan, because:
...
Jason is not the first person in the history of the Internet to say "Hey, if we all just did X then everyone's life would be better,"
??? I never said "Hey Joe, let's all do this so that...". I said, here' s a bunch of plausible scenarios why power might de-centralize. Of them all, a fiscal crisis of the Fed Gov I think is the most likely.
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Old 03-08-2012, 12:33 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
??? I never said "Hey Joe, let's all do this so that...".
Really? Because that's how I interpreted this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
In a democracy the psychopathic megalomaniacs just need to propagandize the people to allow the gov't to do this or do that for "the common good". All this does is increase gov't power.

The answer is de-centralization of power and for people to realize that a free society solves numerous problems which they think only gov't can solve.
Unless what you meant is "De-centralization of power and for people to wake up (...) would be a good thing, so let's all NOT do that."



(pauses for reflection)



But rather than engaging in he-said / she-said, I'm really more curious as to how you believe that a mature nation with a strong central government (such as the US) could be, as you put it, de-centralized, and then maintained in a state of utopia, without one or more of the following outcomes:

1: Absent any strong central authority, power begins to concentrate in the hands of local military / police officials, who wield it against the population in a feudalistic manner. (eg: half of Africa at this point)

2: Unable to raise a strong and coordinated military, the US is simply conquered outright by a strong foreign power such as China or the Canada / Mexico alliance.

3: Civil war leads to totalitarianism and re-unification as a police state. (eg: USSR)

4: Any of the various Max Mad scenarios.

5: We return to the style of strong local government of the early 20th century US. Power is concentrated at the level of the state and city office, and sold to business interests and organized crime syndicates in an ad-hoc political marketplace.

6: (etc)


The problem is that power abhors a vacuum, and for any sufficiently large population sample, there will always be within it certain individuals who possess both an aptitude and a willingness to concentrate and exploit power for their own gain, usually at the expense of the larger community. We could go anywhere from the local mob boss collecting protection money under the nose of a corrupt mayor all the way to Reductio ad Hitlerum with this concept.
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Old 03-08-2012, 12:58 PM   #105
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Not terribly surprised at my results, but didn't like the way some of the statements were worded, as depending on my chosen interpretation it could change my answer for a variety of them fairly markedly.

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Old 03-08-2012, 01:09 PM   #106
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i mean some of those questions arent even fair. especially the one about being a superior race.
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Old 03-08-2012, 01:20 PM   #107
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Really, though, the questions are ridiculously ambiguous. And yes, I've read their "explanation" -- and I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about something like this:

Quote:
A significant advantage of a one-party state is that it avoids all the arguments that delay progress in a democratic political system.
Agree or disagree?

Well, that's tough. If I say I disagree, am I disagreeing that it's an advantage? Or disagreeing that a one party system avoids arguments? Or disagreeing that delaying "progress" is something to be avoided at all, rather than being a fundamental part of the democratic political system?
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Old 03-08-2012, 01:24 PM   #108
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In any case, trying my best to game the system and answer what I think would shift my position in the most honest direction, I got this:

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Old 03-08-2012, 01:32 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgeoffriau View Post
Well, that's tough. If I say I disagree, am I disagreeing that it's an advantage? Or disagreeing that a one party system avoids arguments?
Hehe. This reminds me of some of the stuff on the LSAT.

Look at it conversely. If you put "Agree", then you agree that

1: A one-party state avoids arguments which delay progress, and
2: Avoiding arguments which delay progress is advantageous.

Thus, disagreement could plausibly indicate that you believe either

1: A one-party state does not avoid arguments which delay progress, or
2: Avoiding arguments which delay progress is not advantageous.



Quote:
Or disagreeing that delaying "progress" is something to be avoided at all, rather than being a fundamental part of the democratic political system?
The question does not ask you to judge whether progress is good or bad, or whether delaying it is good or bad. Only whether a single-party system avoids arguments which delay it, and whether avoiding arguments which delay progress is advantageous.

You could infer that one's answers to the question indicate a preference as to whether progress itself is advantageous or disadvantageous, but the question does not actually ask that. (It also relies upon an assumed consensus as to the definition of what "progress" means.)
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Old 03-08-2012, 01:34 PM   #110
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Damn, even Mg wasn't further right than Brainy.
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Old 03-08-2012, 01:43 PM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
The question does not ask you to judge whether progress is good or bad, or whether delaying it is good or bad. Only whether a single-party system avoids arguments which delay it, and whether avoiding arguments which delay progress is advantageous.

You could infer that one's answers to the question indicate a preference as to whether progress itself is advantageous or disadvantageous, but the question does not actually ask that. (It also relies upon an assumed consensus as to the definition of what "progress" means.)
I think making that (or some similar) inference is all but necessary, given that choosing Strongly Agree, Agree, Disagree, or Strongly Disagree is supposed to reveal something about my political positions that is significant enough to shift me by some measurable amount along either the Left-Right or Authoritarian-Libertarian axes.

In other words, even once we move beyond the ambiguous language of the question, the lack of context means that I don't trust the test-writers to interpret my answer correctly, and at best can only guess which response best represents my position in terms of numerical score.
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Old 03-08-2012, 01:46 PM   #112
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this is what i was saying...
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Old 03-08-2012, 01:47 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by blaen99 View Post
Damn, even Mg wasn't further right than Brainy.

right is might, that's why im the admin.


time for lunch. getting greek today.
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Old 03-08-2012, 02:05 PM   #114
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Your political compass

Economic Left/Right: -5.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -0.72



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Old 03-08-2012, 03:04 PM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgeoffriau View Post
In other words, even once we move beyond the ambiguous language of the question, the lack of context means that I don't trust the test-writers to interpret my answer correctly, and at best can only guess which response best represents my position in terms of numerical score.
Well, we can only guess as to the exact mechanics behind the test (eg: are responses to various questions analyzed in groups, does the response to one weight the analysis of another, etc.)

If we consider a black-box analysis, then I think it's reasonable to make certain assumptions, however.

For instance, if you agree that a one-party state is advantageous in that it avoids arguments which impede progress in a democratic system, this indicates that you are likely to hold other beliefs which, collectively, suggest that you might lean more towards an authoritarian point of view, as authoritarianism generally implies a tendency towards mandate rather than consensus.
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Old 03-08-2012, 03:40 PM   #116
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I bet you're all wondering what y8s is!



I'm going to liberaltarian up your business!

Imagine if I hadn't said "corporations can't be trusted" so many times in that survey!
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Old 03-08-2012, 03:46 PM   #117
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The funny part about that graph, Y8s, is "left" is communism, "right" is a form of liberalism.

So, everyone on the right is a liberal, everyone on the left is a communist.
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Old 03-08-2012, 03:47 PM   #118
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The funny part about that graph, Y8s, is "left" is communism, "right" is a form of liberalism.

So, everyone on the right is a liberal, everyone on the left is a communist.
I would have believed "socialist" is left. I'm certainly not a communist.
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Old 03-08-2012, 03:47 PM   #119
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I would have believed "socialist" is left. I'm certainly not a communist.
Read the sites own definitions. They defined communism as left, liberalism as right in it.

Which makes some of the people's results entirely too funny. (Hi Brainy, you DIRTY DIRTY LIBERAL!)
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Old 03-08-2012, 04:09 PM   #120
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Quote:
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Read the sites own definitions. They defined communism as left, liberalism as right in it.

Which makes some of the people's results entirely too funny. (Hi Brainy, you DIRTY DIRTY LIBERAL!)
maybe I'm just an anarchist then.
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