Political Compass test - Page 8 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Current Events, News, Politics Keep the politics here.

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-09-2012, 02:59 PM   #141
Elite Member
iTrader: (6)
 
blaen99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 4,112
Total Cats: 27
Default

You know, at times I swear I just come to this forum to read Joe's posts. Informative, entertaining, and educational. I wish I could give you more than just 1 prop for that post Joe.
blaen99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2012, 03:27 PM   #142
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,899
Total Cats: 1,792
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by y8s View Post
I also want a decent minimum standard provided for the masses.

I mean that's cool an all, but the standard of living is rediculous:

Quote:
The audit is the latest finding against the city's Department of Human Services, which has been under scrutiny for chronic mismanagement of federal funds. Many of the department's leaders have departed since an internal investigation was launched last year, including an inquiry into the purchase of $182,000 worth of high-end furniture for a department office. In 2009, the department received more than $11 million in stimulus funding and created a service center.

The center, at 1970 Larned, included the Customer Choice Pantry, the New Beginnings Clothing Boutique and a call center that had the capacity to service 60,000 families in need. The boutique was to provide business attire for low-income residents for job interviews.

To receive clothing, residents were required to have a job interview scheduled. According to the audit, the DHS was supposed to help 400 people between October 2010 and September 2011 but instead served only two.
I'm not sure we can afford $5.5 million a person.
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2012, 03:37 PM   #143
Crumple Zone Tester
iTrader: (7)
 
mgeoffriau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Jackson, MS
Posts: 7,656
Total Cats: 447
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
I'm not sure we can afford $5.5 million a person.
Come on, Brainy, the number is irrelevant. The government isn't budget-constrained, remember?
mgeoffriau is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2012, 03:41 PM   #144
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,899
Total Cats: 1,792
Default

my bad, just seemed a bit excessive.
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2012, 05:33 PM   #145
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (31)
 
Savington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 14,370
Total Cats: 1,332
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fooger03 View Post
Once a government is no longer willing to allow it's citizens to die, that government becomes hostage to those citizens.
I have a couple of questions for you:

1. If your house caught on fire, and your family were trapped inside, would you expect the fire department to show up and save you?

1b. Would you pay the fire department for their services?

1c. If you could not pay (hypothetically), would you be OK with the fire department letting your house burn with your family inside?

2. Do you honestly think that the government should not be held hostage by its citizens? I mean this in a figurative sense - i.e. "the government should not be held accountable by its citizens" - since I assume you meant it figuratively and not literally

3. You can probably see where I'm going with this - at what point do you decide that the government should step in and intervene in times of need? This is a sliding scale between anarchy (the government should provide nothing and essentially should not exist) and communism (the government provides everything).
Savington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2012, 05:58 PM   #146
Elite Member
iTrader: (46)
 
Stein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 4,812
Total Cats: 138
Default

More Authoritarian than Libertarian than I would have thought.

Stein is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2012, 06:09 PM   #147
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: SoCal
Posts: 4,165
Total Cats: 19
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
my bad, just seemed a bit excessive.
What do yo think about what Joe posted?
gearhead_318 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2012, 06:14 PM   #148
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
 
fooger03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 4,133
Total Cats: 188
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
I have a couple of questions for you:

1. If your house caught on fire, and your family were trapped inside, would you expect the fire department to show up and save you?

Yes, I would

1b. Would you pay the fire department for their services?

I already do

1c. If you could not pay (hypothetically), would you be OK with the fire department letting your house burn with your family inside?

See 1b. If I didn't pay, I wouldn't expect the fire department to exist. I am more concerned with the fire department being able to put out a fire in my neighbors house. If they are coming to put out a fire in my house, my house is already destroyed. If they are coming to put out a fire in my neighbors house, they are potentially saving my house. Therefore, I pay for the fire department so that my house might survive if my neighbors burn down their house.

2. Do you honestly think that the government should not be held hostage by its citizens? I mean this in a figurative sense - i.e. "the government should not be held accountable by its citizens" - since I assume you meant it figuratively and not literally

The government should be held "accountable" by it's citizens, instead, the government is held "hostage" by it's citizens, and since the government is supposedly "by, of, and for the people", it's really "the people" that are being held hostage by it's citizens -> I am being held hostage by someone whose personal standard of living is below the government's standard of living, for a ransom of (insert value of government assistance here) because I'm not willing to force them to earn their keep. If you had a friend who was living with you, didn't have a job, didn't pay any bills, ate food that you bought, drove your cars, drank your beer, and refused to assist you with any household chores, would you suffer though it because "i can't bear to see him out on the street", or would you grow a pair and tell him to GTFO? If you can tell him to GTFO, no only will your own disposable income increase, but he'll be forced to fend for himself, which means he'll suddenly be motivated beg, borrow, and steal until he can find a way to feed himself, probably by first getting a job at McDonalds, and then a night job at a gas station. If you're not willing to kick him out, and he knows you're not willing to kick him out, then your household is held hostage by him at a monthly ransom of however much his life costs you.

3. You can probably see where I'm going with this - at what point do you decide that the government should step in and intervene in times of need? This is a sliding scale between anarchy (the government should provide nothing and essentially should not exist) and communism (the government provides everything).

Government should provide for all things which individuals cannot afford, but groups can afford, and where individuals within the group each derive a net benefit from the good or service. Examples of course are roads, security (police), fire protection, public schools, and defense. Government should not mandate group purchases for goods/services which do not benefit members of the purchasing group. An example of course is a welfare program, where the "purchasers" are the higher income earners who derive no benefit from purchasing the service.

A correctly administered "Unemployment insurance" is not welfare because "unemployment insurance" is purchased by the wage earner (at the cost of reduced wage rates), though such "insurance" needs to be correctly indexed to the likelihood of losing the job. The current "obamasurance" is indeed welfare, people who are currently in their 28th tier of unemployment insurance did not pay for 28 tiers of insurance, and as such, current wage earners *and* employers are paying for beneficiaries to not work.
Oh hai der!
fooger03 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2012, 07:23 PM   #149
Elite Member
iTrader: (21)
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 5,688
Total Cats: 560
Default

Fooger, great post. I was about to lay out something similar, but you beat me to it.
rleete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2012, 08:29 PM   #150
Elite Member
iTrader: (6)
 
blaen99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 4,112
Total Cats: 27
Default

Foogy, did you just argue in favor of government entities? I'm baffled, that's opposite a position I would expect you to take.
blaen99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2012, 08:40 PM   #151
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
 
fooger03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 4,133
Total Cats: 188
Default

I've never before been giving the opportunity to argue for the positive aspects of government
fooger03 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2012, 08:49 PM   #152
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: SoCal
Posts: 4,165
Total Cats: 19
Default

I'm beginning to think Brain is an extremely dedicated troll.
gearhead_318 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2012, 10:44 PM   #153
Elite Member
iTrader: (6)
 
blaen99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 4,112
Total Cats: 27
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearhead_318 View Post
I'm beginning to think Brain is an extremely dedicated troll.
No, no, see Gearhead. Brainy doesn't "troll", he "argues to argue".

/It's all about the semantics man!
blaen99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2012, 11:22 PM   #154
Elite Member
iTrader: (5)
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 1,970
Total Cats: 49
Default

Good stuff Fooger.
Seefo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2012, 11:48 PM   #155
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Asheville, NC
Posts: 143
Total Cats: 0
Default


More left than I would have thought, interesting.
Attached Thumbnails
Political Compass test-politicalcompasstest.png  
jboogie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2012, 12:21 PM   #156
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,454
Total Cats: 80
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
...


I'm still having trouble deciding whether you believe that it is actually possible for
  • The central government of a large and "economically mature" nation such as the US to be, in essence, dismantled and have most of its powers distributed amongst its constituent states,
  • In a manner which does not severely disrupt the economy and degrade the well-being of its citizens,
  • Or lead to civil war between the states,
  • Or result in an end-state configuration which resembles feudalism, or tribal warlord-ism, ..
  • Results in a stable collection of local governments which are able to enjoy trade and commerce, both intra-nationally and inter-nationally, at a level no less satisfactory than before.
Or if we're just speaking in abstract hypotheticals.

......
...
And that's how the Dark Ages began.
Um, how about just returning to the original intent of the Constitution?

Does your list describe how the USA was supposed to be?
Or like Switzerland today?
They are far more de-centralized than today's monstrosity.
JasonC SBB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2012, 01:21 PM   #157
Boost Pope
iTrader: (8)
 
Joe Perez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Delicious and Moist.
Posts: 26,327
Total Cats: 1,926
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
Um, how about just returning to the original intent of the Constitution?

Does your list describe how the USA was supposed to be?
Or like Switzerland today?
They are far more de-centralized than today's monstrosity.
Really?

That's it?

I spend a huge amount of time responding to your abstract hypotheticals, asking a number of extremely specific questions, and all you can come up with is another abstract hypothetical which completely evades every issue which I raised?

Jason, I am actually just a little bit hurt and offended by this. I thought you cared more about genuine discourse. It's obvious that you didn't even bother reading my last post, or you'd immediately see why asking "what about Switzerland" makes exactly as much sense as "what about a bacon and cheese sandwich" in this context.
Joe Perez is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2012, 02:48 PM   #158
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 3,284
Total Cats: 178
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
Since you're better at the following, can you show graphs showing the above going back several years or decades, and also the graph I showed, with the same time frame?
I couldn't find a breakout of individual national Treasury holdings quickly on FRED. Here is debt Federal Debt Held by Foreign & International Investors vs the 10-year Treasury yield going back as far as data is available.

Indexed billions of dollars


Percent change from a year ago



Unfortunately, the Federal Debt Held by Foreign & International Investors series ends at 3Q2011 so I can't show it versus the more recent yields.
Scrappy Jack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2012, 04:02 PM   #159
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,454
Total Cats: 80
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
Really?

That's it?

I spend a huge amount of time responding to your abstract hypotheticals, asking a number of extremely specific questions, and all you can come up with is another abstract hypothetical which completely evades every issue which I raised?
My original thesis was that the "pendulum was going to swing the other way" because the Fed Gov will default, and its budget cut. Power is going to return back to the States, closer to the Constitution. (Minarchy) As the U.S. Empire ends, this would be a favorable transition.

My fantasy scenario was a transition to AnarchoCapitalism. Its proponents describe how a stable society would look. Basically it is a system of priate law where agencies compete to sell you protection and insurance. (This is akin to how various insurance companies today sell you insurance.) The Nation-State (monopoly gov't defined by geographical borders) ceases to exist. Such a society is described in the following books:
- Neal Stephenson's Diamond Age
- N Neil Smith's Probability Broach
- David Barker's Welcome to Free America
- David Friedman's Machinery of Freedom
- Murray Rothman's For a New Liberty

Quote:
Nature abhors a power vacuum"
The way a society and its people are has a huge bearing on what happens after centralized power collapses. What might happen in the USA if the Fed Gov goes insolvent, will be different from the same happening in say, Venezuela or China.
JasonC SBB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2012, 03:18 PM   #160
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,899
Total Cats: 1,792
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearhead_318 View Post
What do yo think about what Joe posted?
What do you think about Portugal decriminalizing drugs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearhead_318 View Post
I'm beginning to think Brain is an extremely dedicated troll.
What?!
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
3rd Time's a Charm...hopefully. zephyrusaurai Meet and Greet 2 09-28-2015 11:59 PM
Are my coils failing? viriiguy General Miata Chat 5 09-28-2015 08:39 PM
Compression test results Colipto General Miata Chat 3 09-11-2015 02:44 PM


Tags
authoritarian, compass, libertarian, political, test

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:49 PM.