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Old 03-16-2012, 02:01 PM   #61
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i mean that's pretty simple logic. no troll.

i absolutely, with every ounce of my body, despise obama.

the other night, we were watching tv and obama was giving a speech and my wife goes "i hate obama" and we made love there on the spot. the cats watched.
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Old 03-16-2012, 02:04 PM   #62
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Obama care would be a big one. If republicans take power in the oval office and in the senate this program can be reversed or majorly overhauled. Yes I am aware that Mitt Romney enacted a similar program himself, however, his party would put significant pressure on him to complete an overhaul. He has already begun back pedaling on his stance on his program in Mass. due to public scrutiny.
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Old 03-16-2012, 02:04 PM   #63
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Okay, you get props for that one Brainy.
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Old 03-16-2012, 02:05 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Ryan_G View Post
Obama care would be a big one. If republicans take power in the oval office and in the senate this program can be reversed or majorly overhauled. Yes I am aware that Mitt Romney enacted a similar program himself, however, his party would put significant pressure on him to complete an overhaul. He has already begun back pedaling on his stance on his program in Mass. due to public scrutiny.
How much do you actually know about Obamacare, and why do you think it's bad?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patient...dable_Care_Act

Specifically, what parts in the above do you find objectionable?
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Old 03-16-2012, 02:06 PM   #65
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Obama has also largely increased the deficit and shows no signs of slowing down. He consistently hands out money that fails to achieve its intended purpose (i.e. his many energy loans to companies that are now bankrupt.)
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Old 03-16-2012, 02:07 PM   #66
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I disagree with the mathematically proven unsustainable part of the program. You know the part that shows it will self bankrupt like Social Security is already doing.
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Old 03-16-2012, 02:07 PM   #67
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Obama has also largely increased the deficit and shows no signs of slowing down.
b.b.b.b...b...but Bush moment.

Bush still has the largest single-year deficit in US history, and if you include the wars in the budget (Obama does include them in his budgets, Bush didn't), he's the largest deficit in US history. Obama has not touched him in that respect.

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He consistently hands out money that fails to achieve its intended purpose (i.e. his many energy loans to companies that are now bankrupt.)
So, you mean like Bush Jr, like Clinton, like bush sr, like Reagan, like...every president has since at least Thomas Jefferson, if not earlier? Yes, that will destroy the US bro.

It's bad, but by no means is it anything new or exciting.
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Old 03-16-2012, 02:09 PM   #68
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The problem with these governement programs is they are well intentioned but terribly executed. The governement is just too large to efficiently spend money. It is not run like a business and lack many of the internal controls that lend themselves to controling fraud and abuse of the system.
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Old 03-16-2012, 02:10 PM   #69
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I never said it was new to increase the deficit. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I believe that both parties are a problem. However, the things that Obama puts money into tend to fail completely.
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Old 03-16-2012, 02:12 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Ryan_G View Post
The problem with these governement programs is they are well intentioned but terribly executed. The governement is just too large to efficiently spend money. It is not run like a business and lack many of the internal controls that lend themselves to controling fraud and abuse of the system.
You've said something that has widespread support from, at least I sincerely believe, all posters on this forum.

The only disagreement you will find is that it is not run like a business - I do not think it should.

A business would have never created our highway system, as an example. Or NASA, or many other things that have paid dividends a thousandfold the actual cost.

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I never said it was new to increase the deficit. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I believe that both parties are a problem. However, the things that Obama puts money into tend to fail completely.
Uh, the things that Bush tends to put money in tend to fail completely. His father bought him many very successful businesses, and he ran them all into the ground. And let's look at Bushes pet wars, shall we?

Both sides of the aisle do it, bro. Romney, Santorum, and Gingrich will all do the exact same. Only Paul won't.

/Then again, I'm a huuuuge supporter of Paul.
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Old 03-16-2012, 02:17 PM   #71
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I like Paul as well. I just made a strategic choice to vote Romney because I feel that at this point in time Paul can't win and outing Obama is my priority #1. I agree that governement should not be run like a business in entirety. However, there are many things that government can take from business structure to compliment it. Effective and efficient internal controls would be one.
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Old 03-16-2012, 02:24 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan_G View Post
I like Paul as well. I just made a strategic choice to vote Romney because I feel that at this point in time Paul can't win and outing Obama is my priority #1. I agree that governement should not be run like a business in entirety. However, there are many things that government can take from business structure to compliment it. Effective and efficient internal controls would be one.
Frankly, if I had my way, I'd get the government the hell out of (the majority of) citizens welfare in the first place and implement alternative systems that don't require internal controls in the first place except for extreme circumstances.

Inb4Igetflamedforsuggesting it.

The problem is that my solution is unrealistic. Many of people's solutions to solve their problems with the government are unrealistic. See: Joe Perez vs. Jason as a great example of what I am talking about.

So, the question is - how can what you want be implemented realistically? So far, you've wanted reasonable requests.

But let's take a look at Medicaid. They have something like a 3% overhead - it's the smallest overhead of any insurance program in the US, private or public, by a wide margin. Are you trying to say that this has poor internal controls - and yet, it's beating even the most efficient private business by a favor of 5?

What do you think has poor internal controls? Why do you think it has poor internal controls? What do you think could be done to improve it?
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Old 03-16-2012, 02:24 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blaen99 View Post
How much do you actually know about Obamacare, and why do you think it's bad?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patient...dable_Care_Act

Specifically, what parts in the above do you find objectionable?

Any time you monopolize something, it becomes bad.

Medicaid/Medicare is a real drain on the system as is and a SUPER PITA for everyone involved in it.
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Old 03-16-2012, 02:28 PM   #74
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Any time you monopolize something, it becomes bad.
What part of Obamacare monopolizes something? I provided a link to a common English version of the Bill, please quote.

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Medicaid/Medicare is a real drain on the system as is and a SUPER PITA for everyone involved in it.
And yet, they are demonstrably more efficient than private insurance. Shouldn't it be the opposite if what the maxim being expounded upon here is true?
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Old 03-16-2012, 02:28 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by blaen99 View Post
Frankly, if I had my way, I'd get the government the hell out of (the majority of) citizens welfare in the first place and implement alternative systems that don't require internal controls in the first place except for extreme circumstances.

Inb4Igetflamedforsuggestingit.jpg

stop lying you ------- ------.
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Old 03-16-2012, 02:31 PM   #76
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What part of Obamacare monopolizes something? I provided a link to a common English version of the Bill, please quote.
If I made everyone using this site pay $10 a month for access, would the site remain for long?

Some would argue it would kill the site, but it wasn't written in a common English version of the new policy.
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Old 03-16-2012, 02:32 PM   #77
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stop lying you ------- ------.
And I'll repeat what I've said in a previous thread, you ------ -----

Eliminate all social welfare programs. Food stamps to social security to whatever.

Every citizen of majority age receives an automatic tax refund, in cash, equal to the poverty line. If you aren't a citizen? Well then, tough ------- titty.

Extreme cases (I.e., demonstrable disabilities, such as blindness, retardation, etc.) are handled by a small agency.

A universal public health care system is implemented that is side-by-side with private insurers.

If poverty line living with public health care doesn't satisfy someone? Then by god, they can get a job with actual insurance.

And while I'm getting super-radical, all personal taxes are repealed. Only businesses are taxed.

/I mean, taxing a business is the same as taxing a person, right? Well, let's just cut out the middle man.
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Old 03-16-2012, 02:34 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by blaen99 View Post
And I'll repeat what I've said in a previous thread, you ------ -----

Eliminate all social welfare programs. Food stamps to social security to whatever.

Every citizen of majority age receives an automatic tax refund, in cash, equal to the poverty line. If you aren't a citizen? Well then, tough ------- titty.

Extreme cases (I.e., demonstrable disabilities, such as blindness, retardation, etc.) are handled by a small agency.

A universal public health care system is implemented that is side-by-side with private insurers.

If poverty line living with public health care doesn't satisfy someone? Then by god, they can get a job with actual insurance.
wouldnt the poverty line tax rebate be a social welfare program?

wouldn't universal healthcare be a social welfare program?
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Old 03-16-2012, 02:35 PM   #79
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In other healthcare news:

Quote:
According to Reuters, the U.S. Congressional Budget Office (CBO) said on Tuesday that the U.S. government in the next twelve health care, Medicaid and other health care spending on the project will more than double to 1.8 trillion U.S. dollars, accounting for the total economy output of 7.3%.

Congressional Budget Office in the degree of budget and economic outlook report that even the most conservative estimates, the U.S. health care spending growth in 2012-2022 will reach 8%, mainly due to an aging population and health care costs continue to rise. Medicare spending will continue to be the main cause of the budget deficit.

Medicaid for senior citizens, the project will account for half of the expected growth, health care accounted for one-third, according to President Obama’s 2010 health care reform bill, the federal government for the purchase of low-income providing health insurance subsidies will occupy the rest.

researchers warned that if the current level of income remains unchanged, rising social security expenditure on health care spending coupled with the long term will seriously affect the U.S. deficit.

CBO report said: “from the federal deficit will rise to unsustainable levels of debt. To avoid this consequence, policy makers must be substantial suppression of these items of expenditure, revenue, or while taking two measures. “
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Old 03-16-2012, 02:37 PM   #80
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wouldnt the poverty line tax rebate be a social welfare program?
Only if you consider giving everyone, universally, a tax refund a "social welfare" program. Note that this would include the richest person in the US to the poorest person in the US, so I think it would nicely evade your definition

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wouldn't universal healthcare be a social welfare program?
No, it's a "Save us money" program.

The US pays 17% of our GDP to health care. Canada pays 10% of their GDP to health care. Canada's system is at least comparable to ours at a substantially lower cost.

I don't support public/single payer/universal health care for some omgwtfhippyliberal reasons. I support it because there is well-founded economic reasoning behind it.
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