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Old 07-12-2012, 06:16 PM   #41
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If law enforcement becomes a major source of revenue then it will ever become harder for the average person to live their life without being caught being a criminal.
When you're growing up as a kid, you pretty much assume that "the customs of your village are the laws of nature." So I really didn't appreciate this until I moved out west to the free state of California, but...

The stereotypes promoted by movies such as Smokey & The Bandit about the state of traffic enforcement in the southeastern US, especially in non-metropolitan areas, are pretty much true. Traffic enforcement IS a major revenue generator in these towns, and has been for more than half a century.

Whenever I go back home to visit the family, I feel as though I'm living in a police state insofar as the number of patrol cars I see pulled over to the side of every major road, with an officer writing a ticket for going 5 MPH over the speed limit, or failing to come to a complete stop before turning right at a stop sign wherein you have clear visibility in all directions for at least a mile, etc.

As much as people seem to have it in their heads that California is some kind of communist regime, we really do have a lot more freedom on the roads than y'all down there in the moonshine belt.
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Old 07-12-2012, 06:27 PM   #42
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I forgot which scifi book it was, but this thread reminds me of the future society that made traffic infractions a capital crime,...because they needed the body parts.
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Old 07-12-2012, 10:33 PM   #43
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It’s kind of a circular argument. Not all regulation is bad and no regulation is often much worse.

Private companies shouldn’t be allowed to put up private for profit ticketing machines to take from the public with the force of government and law enforcement.

There ought to be a law against that.

Oh no we don’t want any regulation against the free market which would harm business. We can't make a law because that would be regulation.

Well we should elect people to represent the will of the people in government making the rules and implementing the funtions of government if we don’t like how business is behaving or the loss of freedom.

Can’t elect good people to government because they are too corruptible by money.

Right wing supreme court – “Corporations are people” “Money is Speech” You loose.

In this State several city referendums resulted in the public voting out the cameras and some elected officials were also voted out based on this issue.

The courts recently ruled the referendums of the people in this matter were not binding because the cameras were for their own good and the elected officials were the ones to make those decisions. You loose.

Scary times we live in.
I wasn't really arguing that all regulation is bad. There needs to be a certain amount of regulation because of the way the world and people actually work. I was referring to the fact that lately the first thing people want to do is regulate a business every time they hear about how much money is spent on policy. Not enough sustained attention is placed upon the political process involved that leads the businesses to operate this way. Minimal regulation on business is key to stimulate competition and innovation but there needs to be a certain amount of base regulation to control the behavior of those who pose threats to the public. Government on the other hand needs to be highly regulated or otherwise kept in check to ensure that those in power do not take steps to increase, prolong, or extort their influence beyond it's intent.
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Old 07-13-2012, 03:32 PM   #44
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I wasn't really arguing that all regulation is bad. There needs to be a certain amount of regulation because of the way the world and people actually work. I was referring to the fact that lately the first thing people want to do is regulate a business every time they hear about how much money is spent on policy. Not enough sustained attention is placed upon the political process involved that leads the businesses to operate this way. Minimal regulation on business is key to stimulate competition and innovation but there needs to be a certain amount of base regulation to control the behavior of those who pose threats to the public. Government on the other hand needs to be highly regulated or otherwise kept in check to ensure that those in power do not take steps to increase, prolong, or extort their influence beyond it's intent.
Many on the right have used the deregulation argument to remove things that proved to be needed such as the repeal of Glass-Steagall for instance. And they would do things like repeal the EPA so we can go back to flaming rivers, contaminated ground water, and choking life shortening smog pollution and acid rain and the like. They will twist reality to try and convince that regulation caused companies to behave badly at every instance which is pretty twisted logic in a lot of cases. I trust business to make a profit however they see fit I do not trust them to do the right thing, not infringe on citizens liberty and prosperity, or even behave in a sustainable manner without a significant number of rules. Because the world is constantly changing rules need to be constantly updated some things may be removed some things added. Our government was setup for that purpose. I want my government to use intelligent regulation not tied to a philosophically hard line static view one way or another. Those that think the answer to all the problems of our civilization can be found solely in unregulated free market are Idiots or they think this philosophy is to their advantage somehow.

Bob
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Old 07-13-2012, 03:39 PM   #45
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are cars not better than horses shitting everywhere?
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Old 07-13-2012, 03:44 PM   #46
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Many on the right have used the deregulation argument to remove things that proved to be needed such as the repeal of Glass-Steagall for instance. And they would do things like repeal the EPA so we can go back to flaming rivers, contaminated ground water, and choking life shortening smog pollution and acid rain and the like. They will twist reality to try and convince that regulation caused companies to behave badly at every instance which is pretty twisted logic in a lot of cases. I trust business to make a profit however they see fit I do not trust them to do the right thing, not infringe on citizens liberty and prosperity, or even behave in a sustainable manner without a significant number of rules. Because the world is constantly changing rules need to be constantly updated some things may be removed some things added. Our government was setup for that purpose. I want my government to use intelligent regulation not tied to a philosophically hard line static view one way or another. Those that think the answer to all the problems of our civilization can be found solely in unregulated free market are Idiots or they think this philosophy is to their advantage somehow.

Bob
FEMA spend $75m and is going to spend more making sure a toad population is not infringed-upon in Bastrop Texas from the fires last year, even though there is a high liklihood there are no toads there...like 3 have been found. NEPA needs work.
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Old 07-13-2012, 04:33 PM   #47
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They will twist reality to try and convince that regulation caused companies to behave badly at every instance which is pretty twisted logic in a lot of cases. I trust business to make a profit however they see fit I do not trust them to do the right thing, not infringe on citizens liberty and prosperity, or even behave in a sustainable manner without a significant number of rules.
I'm not sure if you are implying that I said businesses behave unethically because of regulation, but if that is what you are doing you misunderstood my point. I meant that, for politics specifically, businesses behave a certain way because polticians create an environment that makes it easy if not encouraged.

Businesses generally behave unethically or illegally because those in charge are thinking about the short term and how to boost profits now without considering all variables for the long term (i.e. public backlash and subsequent loss of sales) because all they care about is their next bonus. This is where the totally "free market" theory fails to take in to account that businesses are often headed by people who do not give a ---- if the business exists in a year if they can make enough money to retire before then and therefore will do things like dumping toxic waste to cut costs or pull an Enron.
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Old 07-13-2012, 05:27 PM   #48
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When you're growing up as a kid, you pretty much assume that "the customs of your village are the laws of nature." So I really didn't appreciate this until I moved out west to the free state of California, but...
+1. You don't know what you don't know.

The majority of drivers here have no clue what the world could be like to have drivers follow the simple rules "keep right when passing" and "drive as fast as is prudent", like in Germany.

And most Americans, not having lived overseas, have no idea that there are rules and regulations against everything here, and how stifling it can feel.
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