1.6 T28 13psi
03-20-2012, 11:37 AM
#22
Sorry I cant multiquote on my phone. Drove the car to work and in boost its at 11.0 occasionally 10.8 and 10.9 yay im so happy. I just read brainnecks sticky and seems those numbers are good. Heres the two devices. The numbers im reading are from the pillar of course since I cant see the one by the passenger seat
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Now that afr is ok, back on topic, sixshooter said MS to tune and get rid of maf which slows spool. Got it.
Braineck is that line just a concern or will I see improvenet. Even if its just safety I will replace it.
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[/IMG]Now that afr is ok, back on topic, sixshooter said MS to tune and get rid of maf which slows spool. Got it.
Braineck is that line just a concern or will I see improvenet. Even if its just safety I will replace it.
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03-20-2012, 12:11 PM
#26
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lol, at least he is safe.
Your screen must be larger/better than the one on my laptop because I couldn't tell much about the injectors on my end.
Back to the spool issue. Well, Mr. Tocurb, what is the A/R of the exhaust (turbine) housing? Maybe we can figure out why you are about 500rpm later than another 2860 I just read about in another thread.
Is your downpipe 3" from turbo outlet to the main pipe? Do you have a catalytic converter?
Do your AFRs go lean when you first start to accelerate then get rich as the boost builds?
Your screen must be larger/better than the one on my laptop because I couldn't tell much about the injectors on my end.
Back to the spool issue. Well, Mr. Tocurb, what is the A/R of the exhaust (turbine) housing? Maybe we can figure out why you are about 500rpm later than another 2860 I just read about in another thread.
Is your downpipe 3" from turbo outlet to the main pipe? Do you have a catalytic converter?
Do your AFRs go lean when you first start to accelerate then get rich as the boost builds?
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03-20-2012, 08:54 PM
#28
lol, at least he is safe.
Your screen must be larger/better than the one on my laptop because I couldn't tell much about the injectors on my end.
Back to the spool issue. Well, Mr. Tocurb, what is the A/R of the exhaust (turbine) housing? Maybe we can figure out why you are about 500rpm later than another 2860 I just read about in another thread.
the half of the turbo that connects to the manifold has several numbers, a "64 MB 75 S MK"
Is your downpipe 3" from turbo outlet to the main pipe? Do you have a catalytic converter?
downpipe seems to be 2.5 inch :( I also do have cat.
Do your AFRs go lean when you first start to accelerate then get rich as the boost builds?
Your screen must be larger/better than the one on my laptop because I couldn't tell much about the injectors on my end.
Back to the spool issue. Well, Mr. Tocurb, what is the A/R of the exhaust (turbine) housing? Maybe we can figure out why you are about 500rpm later than another 2860 I just read about in another thread.
the half of the turbo that connects to the manifold has several numbers, a "64 MB 75 S MK"
Is your downpipe 3" from turbo outlet to the main pipe? Do you have a catalytic converter?
downpipe seems to be 2.5 inch :( I also do have cat.
Do your AFRs go lean when you first start to accelerate then get rich as the boost builds?
Last edited by Sidewaystocurb; 03-20-2012 at 09:11 PM.
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03-21-2012, 10:04 AM
#29
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Cat is probably most of the spool issue, especially if it is stock pipe inlet size. The 2.5" DP isn't helping all that it could if it was 3" but if you are running a stock cat it wouldn't matter if it was 5" because you are already screwed. And if you are running an aftermarket cat you are still going to make back pressure more than without. And the inlet diameter of it is another big part of your limitation.
You said you had a 3" exhaust. That isn't exactly accurate. Your exhaust is limited by the size of it's narrowest part whether you like it or not. That is a big reason for your slower spool.
You said you had a 3" exhaust. That isn't exactly accurate. Your exhaust is limited by the size of it's narrowest part whether you like it or not. That is a big reason for your slower spool.
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03-21-2012, 11:14 AM
#30
Cat is probably most of the spool issue, especially if it is stock pipe inlet size. The 2.5" DP isn't helping all that it could if it was 3" but if you are running a stock cat it wouldn't matter if it was 5" because you are already screwed. And if you are running an aftermarket cat you are still going to make back pressure more than without. And the inlet diameter of it is another big part of your limitation.
You said you had a 3" exhaust. That isn't exactly accurate. Your exhaust is limited by the size of it's narrowest part whether you like it or not. That is a big reason for your slower spool.
You said you had a 3" exhaust. That isn't exactly accurate. Your exhaust is limited by the size of it's narrowest part whether you like it or not. That is a big reason for your slower spool.
I will post an update. I will also keep my eyes open for an MS. with that I will learn how to tune and be able to get rid of the maf which you said is a little restrictive also.Thank you, and to the rest of the crew on here. After I have all this ill find me a dyno. Im curious as to what numbers ill be putting down.
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03-23-2012, 07:34 AM
#31
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From a PM, but posted here for forum searchability in the future. It is important to keep the conversations that might be helpful to others out in the open.
You have received a combination of correct and incorrect info. A little back pressure is necessary to promote low end torque in a naturally aspirated engine because of the exhaust gas scavenging effect promoted by header flow and tuning. This does not apply to turbocharged engines at all. Turbocharged engines already have inherent back pressure in the exhaust stream do to a blockage in the exhaust path called a turbocharger. After the turbocharger, the least possible back pressure is preferred. The difference in pressure between the exhaust gasses in the manifold trying to enter the turbine and the pressure on the outlet side of the turbine is what drives the wheel. The greater the difference, the greater the transfer of energy to the wheel. And this transfer will happen more prominently and sooner during acceleration.
It really depends how much restriction currently exists versus how much will exist when you are finished altering your exhaust. I have no way of knowing what conditions you have currently and it would be a guess at best. Suffice it to say that a car with a stock catalytic converter with 1.75 inch inlet and outlet will flow considerably less well than one with only the 1.75 inch pipe and no cat. And a car with a 2.5 inch exhaust will flow and spool better than one with a stock exhaust. And one with a 'golfball test' passing 3" muffler will flow better than one with a conventional muffler.
It depends on what rpm, load, and timing you are talking about. There is no one answer because it is on a moving scale. I target 15.5 at cruise and 13 at idle. I run 12's in positive pressure up to a point and then it transitions to 11.7, but that is with my timing, my pressures, and my turbo.
I don't know. You should do a search in the for sale section and see what others have sold for in the past for some idea. You may also check into what they are selling for or have sold for on ebay.
It depends on the efficiency of the system you are running and your timing. You will likely see a drop in pressure if you remove the obstructions in your exhaust but you will receive an increase in power. What you don't yet understand is that psi of manifold pressure is just a measure of inefficiency in your system. The engine is just an air pump. The greater the pressure, the harder your turbo is working to get air into and out of your engine and the lower the power you are creating. The psi goes up as your engine clogs up and can't eat anymore air. The clog usually starts on the exhaust side at the turbine or manifold and ends up keeping your engine from being able to ingest more air on the intake side. As you open the exhaust after the turbine you will see the turbine clogging less and your power will improve. You will make more power at every psi than you did previously.
I'm not giving you a numerical answer on purpose because I have seen two different cars with the same turbo at the same pressure make 75whp difference due to ignition timing, fueling, manifold, exhaust, intercooler size and type, cam timing, air inlet restriction, and IATs.
I don't know anything much about your setup except that you said it was a 3 inch exhaust, then I found out it has a 2.5 inch downpipe, which makes it a 2.5 inch exhaust. Then I find out it has a cat but I don't know if it is a stock cat or a supersized aftermarket one or something in between. I also know nothing of your muffler and its design. And that is just part of the exhaust side.
You just won't know till you put it on the dyno.
No problem.
Originally Posted by Sidewaystocurb
I wanted to thank you for helping me out. Ill be def picking up a megasquirt. I do have a few questions if you could help answer id greatly appreciate it.
ive read that back pressure helps down low. Will I loose torque n just gain more top end? if I have faster spool ill have better response right?
ive read that back pressure helps down low. Will I loose torque n just gain more top end? if I have faster spool ill have better response right?
Originally Posted by Sidewaystocurb
how much should I expect as far as a better spool from removing the cat? 500rpm sooner?
Originally Posted by Sidewaystocurb
Whats is the ideal afr for me?
Originally Posted by Sidewaystocurb
How much can I expect to sell my emanage and begi rising rate fuel pressure regulator for?
Originally Posted by Sidewaystocurb
At 13psi with solid afr and megasquirt what should I expect to be pushing to the wheels?
I'm not giving you a numerical answer on purpose because I have seen two different cars with the same turbo at the same pressure make 75whp difference due to ignition timing, fueling, manifold, exhaust, intercooler size and type, cam timing, air inlet restriction, and IATs.
I don't know anything much about your setup except that you said it was a 3 inch exhaust, then I found out it has a 2.5 inch downpipe, which makes it a 2.5 inch exhaust. Then I find out it has a cat but I don't know if it is a stock cat or a supersized aftermarket one or something in between. I also know nothing of your muffler and its design. And that is just part of the exhaust side.
You just won't know till you put it on the dyno.
Originally Posted by Sidewaystocurb
Again, thank you for your time.
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03-24-2012, 10:17 AM
#35
Well, sixshooter said its different in every application. Id like more power down lkw as the vehicle pics up nicely nd then come 4300rpm give or take a few rpm it just goes into supersonic mode. Its ridiculous how much more power n speed it has at that point. Id like that sooner. This is my first turbo car thats why I was asking about spool time. seems if I get rid of the maf using a Ms and free up the exhaust by removing the exhaust I should ses an improvement.
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03-24-2012, 10:51 AM
#36
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The main problem is intake cam on these 1.6l's.
if you want more low and mid range to aorund 6300rpm swap the intake cam pulley around to get it. Do this before wasting your money.
Even my 1.6 with all the bells and whistles does the same thing, around 4000rpm takes off like a rocket. Its not a boost issue, as I make full boost before then. Say around 3500rpm I'll make full boost, then once 4000 on the tach comes around the engine output changes I can easily start spinning the tires in low gears. Also I can see it in the datalogs, some timing may help it out but overall I think its a cam timing issue.
if you want more low and mid range to aorund 6300rpm swap the intake cam pulley around to get it. Do this before wasting your money.
Even my 1.6 with all the bells and whistles does the same thing, around 4000rpm takes off like a rocket. Its not a boost issue, as I make full boost before then. Say around 3500rpm I'll make full boost, then once 4000 on the tach comes around the engine output changes I can easily start spinning the tires in low gears. Also I can see it in the datalogs, some timing may help it out but overall I think its a cam timing issue.
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03-24-2012, 11:31 AM
#37
The main problem is intake cam on these 1.6l's.
if you want more low and mid range to aorund 6300rpm swap the intake cam pulley around to get it. Do this before wasting your money.
Even my 1.6 with all the bells and whistles does the same thing, around 4000rpm takes off like a rocket. Its not a boost issue, as I make full boost before then. Say around 3500rpm I'll make full boost, then once 4000 on the tach comes around the engine output changes I can easily start spinning the tires in low gears. Also I can see it in the datalogs, some timing may help it out but overall I think its a cam timing issue.
if you want more low and mid range to aorund 6300rpm swap the intake cam pulley around to get it. Do this before wasting your money.
Even my 1.6 with all the bells and whistles does the same thing, around 4000rpm takes off like a rocket. Its not a boost issue, as I make full boost before then. Say around 3500rpm I'll make full boost, then once 4000 on the tach comes around the engine output changes I can easily start spinning the tires in low gears. Also I can see it in the datalogs, some timing may help it out but overall I think its a cam timing issue.
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03-25-2012, 01:38 AM
#39
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lets all hop on the fagsquirting bandwagon. Seriously changing all that won't fix the issue of lack of low end grunt.
If his setup is in good tune right now I wouldn't suggest goiing to a MS because unless you want to shell out a bit of money to get someone to tune it, have fun trying to get back your driveability and factory experince. Takes a lot of work and tuning. If you never tuned one car before its gonna be a long time before you get that back if ever.
If his setup is in good tune right now I wouldn't suggest goiing to a MS because unless you want to shell out a bit of money to get someone to tune it, have fun trying to get back your driveability and factory experince. Takes a lot of work and tuning. If you never tuned one car before its gonna be a long time before you get that back if ever.
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