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Old 07-31-2012, 02:45 PM   #1
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Default 2560r going 2860r

i'm running a 2560r for 2 years now, i really like the spoolup, but lack power uptop.

i'm actually running artech sidemount (begi replacement) and going for a bontom mount one(ditched AC and PS) to go with the 2860r.

my problem is that i have a built 1.6 with super low comp pistons( 7.9:1 cr)
and i fear that going for a 2860 with a .86 housing will be laggy SOAB

if i'M going with a .64 ar housing,can i dream of a near-as-2560r spool time?
if it spools sensibly as quickly(let's say 500rpm later) than my 2560r,will it flow enough not to amputate high-rev-boost?i read a couple of post that specifies everything for a track oriented car, but mine is a daily fun-street car that see drag more often than laping/autocross etc.

i'm curently running my [email protected] psi, super fun,4-5psi by 3000 and maxboost before 3600rpm. i plan on running the 2860 at 14-15psi for a starter and really hope to see max boost before 4000 revs.


i can live with a 4000rpm maxboost,but wouldn't want something that gets full boost at 4500 rpm. i allready know that a 1.8vvt and ms3x is the way to go, but i allready have my built 1.6 and my mspnp.

please destroy my opinions and dreams, i'd like to know what you think about it.
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Old 07-31-2012, 02:48 PM   #2
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what's the point? they share the same compressor wheel. both are 300rwhp turbos.
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Old 07-31-2012, 02:55 PM   #3
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my 2560r could get to 300whp?
i wanted some more headroom with the 2860,since i tought that 260-280 would be a limit for a small turbo as the 2560r. and if i upgraded now for a 2860r i could keep my setup for a later bp swap.


if they flow the same(or about) you're right, it's pretty pointless.
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Old 07-31-2012, 02:58 PM   #4
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your next bump in turbo imo is 2871. spool wont be quite as fast but still fun to drive and you can get some more top stuff
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Old 07-31-2012, 02:59 PM   #5
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the 2860 will increase the efficincy for sure, so more powersi, but yeah, they use the same size compressor.
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Old 07-31-2012, 03:00 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
what's the point? they share the same compressor wheel. both are 300rwhp turbos.
Show me a 2860 that's made 300whp on a Mustang Dyno.
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Old 07-31-2012, 03:01 PM   #7
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As you all know, I love my GT2860rs w/ .86 turbine housing but that's with a tubular manifold. I might consider the GT2560 if I had a log manifold (might). I've never seen anyone with a .64 turbine produce a favorable dyno on the GT2860rs. It seems like something strange happens with that turbo and the smaller housing on our cars. I don't know if is the turbo, the tuning, or unknown unknows, but I wouldn't take a chance on it.
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Old 07-31-2012, 03:12 PM   #8
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so basically i'm better staying with the .86 ex-housing and face the lag?

the search function SUCKS relaly bad these days,i cant find anything on anything(only one thread show up when typing 2860...?...)
i saw a couple dyno chart, but each and everyone of them are bp/vvt/agressive porting/race prep.i have yet to see a dyno chart of a 8.5:1 comp 1.6+potato.

would a low comp 1.6l could see max boost(13-15psi) before 4000rpm on a .86 housing/tubular manifold and ''proper''street tuning(ironic)?
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Old 07-31-2012, 05:36 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaboshe View Post
would a low comp 1.6l could see max boost(13-15psi) before 4000rpm on a .86 housing/tubular manifold and ''proper''street tuning(ironic)?
I'm not sure if you could get much lower than 4k but i'm guessing it would be somewhere around there. the 2871 .86 version would only be giving up 200-300 rpm compared to the 2860 and has a lot more room up top. it's rated to ~400hp.
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Old 07-31-2012, 06:23 PM   #10
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the 2860r is allready ordered, i was wondering wich exaust housing to go with it(tial is not an option at 500$ a peice)
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Old 07-31-2012, 06:24 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
Show me a 2860 that's made 300whp on a Mustang Dyno.
i can show you a 2560 that's made 310rwhp on a dynojet.
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Old 07-31-2012, 08:51 PM   #12
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I suggest a Gt28 with a Tial billet compressor wheel in a .64 housing. AKA Tial Alpha28 or A28. You can send them your new GT28 for the upgrade.

The GT25 turbine section is horrible. The GT28 is awesome but lacks good compressor choices for that turbine. The 60mm compressor is too small. The 71mm compressor is too large for the turbine. Tial makes a billet 68mm extended tip compressor that matches the GT28 perfectly. It will spool 500RPM's faster than a GT2860.

We have fought this same battle on the Porsche and Audi installs. The 1.8 Audi/VW and twin 3.6 Porsche struggled with a hole in the Garrett offerings until Tial made this compressor wheel. You can buy the turbo from Tial.

Do some searching on Google.

Last edited by k24madness; 07-31-2012 at 09:31 PM.
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Old 07-31-2012, 11:22 PM   #13
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I will be upgrading to a tater-0.64 from a 2560. But I have a 1.8 VVT not a 1.6.

My guess is the 0.64 will work well for your 1.6. Your issue is running the 2560 at 17 psi puts its compressor a bit outside its efficiency sweet spot. The tater compressor is more efficient at 17 psi (same size notwithstanding). Plus even the 0.64 turbine passes more gas than the 2560's.
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Old 07-31-2012, 11:24 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k24madness View Post
The GT25 turbine section is horrible.
Kindly expound.

How is a turbo capable of 270 hp on a Dynapack, and makes full boost at 3200 RPM, "horrible"?
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Old 07-31-2012, 11:33 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
i can show you a 2560 that's made 310rwhp on a dynojet.
I don't really care about a dynojet. When you factor the correction at 12%, it's 272 which is good output, but at the top of what the turbo will do.
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Old 07-31-2012, 11:35 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
I will be upgrading to a tater-0.64 from a 2560. But I have a 1.8 VVT not a 1.6.

My guess is the 0.64 will work well for your 1.6. Your issue is running the 2560 at 17 psi puts its compressor a bit outside its efficiency sweet spot. The tater compressor is more efficient at 17 psi (same size notwithstanding). Plus even the 0.64 turbine passes more gas than the 2560's.
I want to see the dyno and for you to be the first to yield favorable results. I don't know enough about engineering and physics to know which is better and why, but I suspect my .86 housing gives lower EGT and more output due to less restriction.
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Old 08-01-2012, 12:00 AM   #17
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If my car were mostly a track car I'd have gone with the 0.86.
However it's a street car. An extra 300 RPM of spool is very noticeable (10% of the powerband width) and worth the loss of 15 hp up top. (5% of peak power)
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Old 08-01-2012, 01:59 AM   #18
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2860 maxes out around 18-19 psi . I haven't seen anyone any higher on that turbo then 310rwhp (which is fast as ---- not). But i've seen a couple 2560's around the 298-305 mark. both on mustang dynos on built 1.8+

Sorry to be a downer but i just don't see spending the cash to grab ~10 hp up top. I mean technically the 2860 has 10% more potential top end but the .64 is just so maxed that it's more like 5%. If it were me i'd try and return/sell and either grab a .86 2871 or wait it out on the new cool turbos and see where those new efrs end up.
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Old 08-01-2012, 04:45 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
Kindly expound.

How is a turbo capable of 270 hp on a Dynapack, and makes full boost at 3200 RPM, "horrible"?
It's horrible because the turbine section is the worst of the Garrett offerings at converting exhaust energy (65%) to shaft power for the compressor. The GT28 on the other hand is one of the best at 75%.
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Old 08-01-2012, 04:50 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
I don't really care about a dynojet. When you factor the correction at 12%, it's 272 which is good output, but at the top of what the turbo will do.
pretty much.

14psi vs 17psi:

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2560r going 2860r-paul300_vs_paul310.jpg  
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