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Old 01-21-2014, 03:12 PM   #81
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I won't bag on Chris too hard, but that 288 was on Church's Dynapack IIRC, which reads 10-11% high.
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Old 01-21-2014, 03:19 PM   #82
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Dammit Andrew it's more fun to troll with the higher number.
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Old 01-21-2014, 04:55 PM   #83
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So what I have gained from this thread is that I should try to hit 300hp on my 1.6 with 330k before I turn it into a locost. If I go the Leafy route and skip rods, I think I need a used turbo, and an intercooler. Everything else I could temporarily pull from spare parts I got laying around.
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Old 01-21-2014, 05:18 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efini~FC3S View Post
Engine re-build including Forged Rods - $600
How did you come up with this figure? A $2400 Miata is gonna need a complete rebuild, and yes forged rods to make 300hp. How do you figure $600 total.

You'll still have trouble convincing me that a $2400 car will be safe to drive even if you got to 300hp. Still need some suspension help, a tranny, wheels and tires, and possibly a diff. Otherwise you might as well have 200hp, cuz that's about the most you could use.
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Old 01-21-2014, 05:26 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
Lets take a poll of how many people in this thread have achieved what is being discussed?

Next lets take a poll of how many people in this thread at any point even built a 300whp miata, regardless of cost.

I'll go get a cup of coffe, someone set up a poll.
Right here................and it ain't gonna happen for the OP with car purchase for $5k.
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Old 01-21-2014, 05:35 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guttedmiata View Post
How did you come up with this figure? A $2400 Miata is gonna need a complete rebuild, and yes forged rods to make 300hp. How do you figure $600 total.
Check my build thread.

Basically I'm doing a rods only "refresh".

Ebay rods with ARP bolts = $220

Rock Auto (DNJ) Engine Rebuild Gasket set thingy + New Chromoly Piston Ring set = $300

Ball Hone tool = $30

New rod and main bearings = $70

so $620 - whoops my bad

I'm not saying it will be good...



Quote:
You'll still have trouble convincing me that a $2400 car will be safe to drive even if you got to 300hp. Still need some suspension help, a tranny, wheels and tires, and possibly a diff. Otherwise you might as well have 200hp, cuz that's about the most you could use.
I'm not trying to convince anyone a 300hp $2400 miata will be fun or safe or reliable, quite the opposite. In my case it would be quite awful, that's why I added a roll-bar, FM frame rails, VMaxx coilovers, 15x8 6ULs with 225 BFG Rivals, new driveshaft (on the way), etc. etc. etc.

I'll be way over $5000, probably closer to $7000 all said and done

Last edited by Efini~FC3S; 01-21-2014 at 05:36 PM. Reason: added wordz
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Old 01-21-2014, 05:42 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efini~FC3S View Post
Check my build thread.

Basically I'm doing a rods only "refresh".

Ebay rods with ARP bolts = $220

Rock Auto (DNJ) Engine Rebuild Gasket set thingy + New Chromoly Piston Ring set = $300

Ball Hone tool = $30

New rod and main bearings = $70

so $620 - whoops my bad

I'm not saying it will be good...





I'm not trying to convince anyone a 300hp $2400 miata will be fun or safe or reliable, quite the opposite. In my case it would be quite awful, that's why I added a roll-bar, FM frame rails, VMaxx coilovers, 15x8 6ULs with 225 BFG Rivals, new driveshaft (on the way), etc. etc. etc.

I'll be way over $5000, probably closer to $7000 all said and done
How many miles are on your motor that you're "refreshing"?

Edit: Just looked at the beginning of your build thread. I'm impressed that you found a car for that price with 120k on it (if it really does). If that's the case, you MIGHT get by with the bottom end you've listed. Those rods would scare the crap out of me. I'd also be at least having the head checked. 300hp is no joke and things will give up if not in good condition.
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Old 01-21-2014, 05:56 PM   #88
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And I'm going to call bullshit on changing rods without pulling the head by pulling them out of the bottom. (from memory) First, the pistons will contact the main bearing castings, so they will only come down so far. Then if they come out, the rings will expand and there is no room for a ring compressor to reinstall them. Third, if you try to only pull them out far enough to get the wrist pins out without the rings fully expanding you don't have enough room to get the pins out, and very little room to get the circlips out.


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Old 01-21-2014, 05:59 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sixshooter View Post
And I'm going to call bullshit on changing rods without pulling the head by pulling them out of the bottom. (from memory) First, the pistons will contact the main bearing castings, so they will only come down so far. Then if they come out, the rings will expand and there is no room for a ring compressor to reinstall them. Third, if you try to only pull them out far enough to get the wrist pins out without the rings fully expanding you don't have enough room to get the pins out, and very little room to get the circlips out.


Its entire'y possible that said guy I know was being hyperbolic since he did it on a gravel driveway in the winter with wooden tools that he carved himself.
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Old 01-21-2014, 06:06 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
Its entire'y possible that said guy I know was being hyperbolic since he did it on a gravel driveway in the winter with wooden tools that he carved himself.
in other words, you're entirely full of it. as always lol
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Old 01-21-2014, 06:18 PM   #91
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If we're allowing stupidcharging, it should be (somewhat) simple to get 300whp out of the stock block with a rotrex. 225ft-lbs @ 7000rpm = 299hp.
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Old 01-21-2014, 07:56 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efini~FC3S View Post
Check my build thread.
Ok so I just went back and read through your whole build thread so far. No offense man, but I'll be incredibly shocked if #1 you make 300hp and #2 if that engine lasts more than a few thousand miles at 18psi. Cutting corners in any one area is already a risk. You my friend are cutting ALL the corners. I hope for the sake of your limited budget that you get lucky and prove us wrong, otherwise you will still have to spend the money to do it right after wasting money to do it with a bunch of band aides.
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Old 01-21-2014, 08:31 PM   #93
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There's a clean Miata for sale, a '95 with a Torsen and hardtop and about 130k miles for $3500. Buy car, sell hardtop, clean Miata for about $2600.

Edit: this was supposed to be a reply to this post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by guttedmiata View Post
How did you come up with this figure? A $2400 Miata is gonna need a complete rebuild, and yes forged rods to make 300hp. How do you figure $600 total.

You'll still have trouble convincing me that a $2400 car will be safe to drive even if you got to 300hp. Still need some suspension help, a tranny, wheels and tires, and possibly a diff. Otherwise you might as well have 200hp, cuz that's about the most you could use.
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Old 01-21-2014, 08:34 PM   #94
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Wow I'm late on that post. LOL!

Mr. guttedmiata,

His turbo build method has been done and proven a number of times. Stock pistons, eBay rods, etc. Why you're nervous about eBay rods is beyond me. They perform just fine.
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Old 01-21-2014, 09:37 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbofan View Post
Wow I'm late on that post. LOL!

Mr. guttedmiata,

His turbo build method has been done and proven a number of times. Stock pistons, eBay rods, etc. Why you're nervous about eBay rods is beyond me. They perform just fine.
So other people (on their first engine build/rebuild no less) have taken used pistons from one block and put them into a different block with a different wear pattern and a noticeable wear ridge at the top of the cylinder and then put a hand worked head with leaky valves and valve guides onto it and then cranked the pressure up enough to make 300hp?

Who?

300hp is a heck of a lot different than 250hp.
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Old 01-21-2014, 09:39 PM   #96
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me
I may have possibly been the 1st. Not sure. Definitely didn't see or hear anyone doing it at the time though.

*EDIT: it was not really what you describe though, quite a bit different.
Also different from how EFNI is doing it, I think he's cutting too many corners.
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Old 01-21-2014, 10:04 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guttedmiata View Post
So other people (on their first engine build/rebuild no less) have taken used pistons from one block and put them into a different block with a different wear pattern and a noticeable wear ridge at the top of the cylinder and then put a hand worked head with leaky valves and valve guides onto it and then cranked the pressure up enough to make 300hp?

Who?

300hp is a heck of a lot different than 250hp.
What are you talking about? He's not putting the pistons from one block into another, unless I missed something. He's going to take the pistons out, hone the block, put new rings and ebay rods and new bearings in the bottom end. He's going to do new valve stem seals to fix the leaking--that was his last post. He didn't say he's going to reassemble it as-is. Would it be better to send it to a reputable builder and have them do it all? Sure! Would he be learning and doing it himself? Nope!

I wouldn't do what he's doing, but he's learning and seeing what he can get away with. Push the limits of cheapness and see how it comes out.

As 18psi said, he has done it, fireindc is doing it, that one noob with the gorgeous montego M did it... It's becoming common these days.

We haven't seen how Luke is going to finally put his car together, so it remains to be seen just how many corners are being cut. He can always do a better job until it's back together in the car.
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Old 01-21-2014, 11:41 PM   #98
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Ok, I'll step away from my negative comments. Should have taken the more helpful route. Anyway, as I stated before, I hope for his sake that it works and I'm wrong.

One last dig......go back and read. Sounds to me like I'm dead on with what he is planning for piston/block combo.
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Old 01-22-2014, 09:22 AM   #99
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double post.
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Old 01-22-2014, 09:24 AM   #100
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I could do it including purchase of car for $5k out of pocket.

Of course, this is ignoring suspension or brakes entirely, but i could do it.

It wouldn't be BP powered, though.

I've made well over 300whp for years now with my daily driver for under $2000 including purchase price.

As far as i can tell, that leaves me $3000 or more to find a way to get the motor in my -$400 93 Miata.

Sounds easy.
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