Absurdflow Low Mount (A/C P/S friendly) - Page 4 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


DIY Turbo Discussion greddy on a 1.8? homebrew kit?

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 08-24-2009, 11:25 PM   #61
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (9)
 
TurboTim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chesterfield, NJ
Posts: 6,479
Total Cats: 248
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sprayed View Post
Don't forget about the 3" dp. That will have a big effect on spool. IMO, your manifolds haven't been proven to offer better spool yet. The trade off between short (log) and long (tubular) runners is spool vs peak power. If your design is the best of both worlds my hat goes off to you, but I don't see the proof yet.
What would be a good proof?

I don't think my mani would be the most ideal in all setups. I think it is the most ideal in most setups. I am biased.

I hear ya about the 3" DP and I agree that it also helps spool/hp/everything. I make a 3" bellmouth DP for the BEGI/FM stuff and lots of people say SSGD's are better so whatever, it is impossible to convince everyone.

I don't think anyone local with a BEGI or FM kit will swap out the mani (dyno each), then downpipes (dyno each), then exhausts (dyno each), etc. I can't afford that either, unless I had my own dyno and I am not that crazy yet. The theory on my manifold makes sense in my head, and the few who are using them (with the 2560) seem to be doing well compared to other setups on the same dyno.
TurboTim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2009, 11:31 PM   #62
MT Pony Underground
iTrader: (6)
 
Nagase's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,811
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboTim View Post
What would be a good proof?
Proof would be spending about 50$ to go to a dyno, swap and the setup overnight (or come back at about the same temp/humidity, or get a good adjustment of the figures for them), then another 50$ and go back the next day (about the same tempurature, same car, same exhaust size, same turbo, same dyno, ect)

It wouldn't cost too much if you had two turbo setups (exaust manifold/turbo/downpipe) around (or one to borrow) and put in the hours for the swap.
Nagase is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2009, 11:45 PM   #63
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (9)
 
TurboTim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chesterfield, NJ
Posts: 6,479
Total Cats: 248
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nagase View Post
Proof would be spending about 50$ to go to a dyno, swap the setup overnight, then another 50$ and go back the next day (about the same tempurature, same car, same exhaust size, same turbo, same dyno, ect)

It wouldn't cost too much if you had two turbo setups (exaust manifold/turbo/downpipe) around (or one to borrow) and put in the hours for the swap.
Ok. It's on my to-do list, right around "get Meg pregnant". Until then the closest I got to that is this, both stock internally '94's. I was running 12psi on the first run, 13 on the second (effects of heat soak??), my BEGI replacement mani and DP, all my other stuff on my car (took the twins off to dyno it). JohnDoe has a BEGI S3 stainless SGDP, enthuza 3", 14psi, basically the best BEGI cast mani kit. Same dyno, different days though. I don't know what he's using for engine management, megasquirt? Not sure on his tune in general but I would consider him above average like me. I'm no expert; using an AEM EMS, same EXACT map as the twins, except for that last run where I tweaked the EBC to try to get to 14psi (only got to 13peak).



TurboTim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2009, 11:48 PM   #64
Elite Member
iTrader: (15)
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 4,889
Total Cats: 28
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
from what I've read on the interweb (including the full-race site" you get slower spool with tubular manifolds, but more power and torque once spun up. There is a lot more volume in the tubular manifold to fill compared to a log (its big, its heavy, its wood).
Not sure about that one. I am going off of what Corky has told me here (and what I have seen with my setup) but according to him the tubular manifold actually helps spool. In their experience, one can go up '1 to 1.5 sizes in turbo' with a tubular versus their directed pulse cast unit and still have about the same spool. What he means by upsizing by '1', is going from say a 2554 to a 2560, or a 2560 to a 2860.

It's one louder.
ZX-Tex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2009, 11:51 PM   #65
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Trenton, NJ
Posts: 1,125
Total Cats: 0
Default

Doesn't Riccardo run a 2554 with your exhaust? Also bryan runs a 2560 with a begi log manifold, but he's got a 1.6. Jes's car is a 2554 with log manifold on a 1.8l, but she has a dual 3" absurdflow exhaust.
ArtieParty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2009, 11:59 PM   #66
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (9)
 
TurboTim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chesterfield, NJ
Posts: 6,479
Total Cats: 248
Default

Riccardo has one of my first exhausts, bryan has my 3" downpipe (not sure about exhaust I can't remember), jes has my downpipe and exhaust. I don't know about dyno plots for any of them...regardless we would need "before" dyno plots to please the people and I don't know of any people running anything I made that have comparable "befores" (mostly due to boost level changes). Maybe Paul, but he's indefinitely MIA.
TurboTim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2009, 12:12 AM   #67
Senior Member
iTrader: (34)
 
ARTech's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dallas
Posts: 530
Total Cats: 9
Default

what size is your BEGI replacement dp in that dyno?

I understand that proving it takes time and money. It's not as simple as it sounds, not cheap (definitely more than $50), and even if you do what nagase suggests there will be some doubters. But, what you claim goes against the norm, so without any proof expect skepticism.

People have made 400+ on BEGI cast manifolds when there are obviously better designs, like yours, but there's no one making that kinda power with yours...so just because the better spooling gt2560 setup happened to have your manifold it doesn't mean the manifold was the reason. Most of these guys are running 2.5" or smaller dp/exhaust.
ARTech is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2009, 12:14 AM   #68
Senior Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Springfield, NJ
Posts: 670
Total Cats: 0
Default

A nice test that makes some people happy might be my car.

Obviously the MSM-IHI turbo isn't too common here, but from what I've read it is similar to the popular 2554.

Otherwise my setup is: stock MSM engine, FM intake, BEGI IC, 460cc injectors, MS Parallel, Absurdflow SGDP + 3" exhaus, 14 psi.

I plan to get one of Tim's tubular manifolds (direct MSM replacement size) by next spring, assuming that's a decent timetable for economic recovery, me finding a job, and Tim not yet being occupied with diaper changes instead of welding!

I plan to do direct before-and-after dynojet tests with NO other changes to the car.

Then there will be apples-to-apples plots posted here on MT. One with suck-*** Mazda log manifold, one with Absurdflow manifold.

My money's on the Absurdflow.
evank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2009, 08:41 AM   #69
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (9)
 
TurboTim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chesterfield, NJ
Posts: 6,479
Total Cats: 248
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sprayed View Post
what size is your BEGI replacement dp in that dyno?
3"


Quote:
Originally Posted by evank View Post
A nice test that makes some people happy might be my car.

Obviously the MSM-IHI turbo isn't too common here, but from what I've read it is similar to the popular 2554.

Otherwise my setup is: stock MSM engine, FM intake, BEGI IC, 460cc injectors, MS Parallel, Absurdflow SGDP + 3" exhaus, 14 psi.

I plan to get one of Tim's tubular manifolds (direct MSM replacement size) by next spring, assuming that's a decent timetable for economic recovery, me finding a job, and Tim not yet being occupied with diaper changes instead of welding!

I plan to do direct before-and-after dynojet tests with NO other changes to the car.

Then there will be apples-to-apples plots posted here on MT. One with suck-*** Mazda log manifold, one with Absurdflow manifold.

My money's on the Absurdflow.
Thanks Evan. I'm hoping the guy(s) who buy my MSM mani will do before/after plots.
TurboTim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2009, 10:39 AM   #70
Senior Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Springfield, NJ
Posts: 670
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboTim View Post
Thanks Evan. I'm hoping the guy(s) who buy my MSM mani will do before/after plots.
One could argue that my test would be more interesting. The IHI turbo may be already (apparently) "maxed out" due to the exhaust setup. So, if the manifold still improves spool in my car, then it's really saying something .... vs. if the other customer has a more standard (and therefore inferior) exhaust setup which isn't already letting the turbo run at apparent maximum potential.

Of course, if the other customer has $$$ then I don't blame you.
evank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2009, 11:30 AM   #71
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ashburn, VA
Posts: 444
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by evank View Post
One could argue that my test would be more interesting. The IHI turbo may be already (apparently) "maxed out" due to the exhaust setup. So, if the manifold still improves spool in my car, then it's really saying something .... vs. if the other customer has a more standard (and therefore inferior) exhaust setup which isn't already letting the turbo run at apparent maximum potential.

Of course, if the other customer has $$$ then I don't blame you.
So Evan, are you planning on doing an Absurdflow manifold with your stock turbo? You won't go for a GT2560R or something? Just curious... b/c that would be more concrete data.

Also, regardless of ambient temps, barometric pressure, humidity, etc., don't most correctly setup dynos have correction factors that give a corrected plot? I thought that was the case so you don't have to whine about "oh, well yesterday was 85 degrees and humid, but today it's only 80 and relatively dry..."
saint_foo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2009, 11:41 AM   #72
Senior Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Springfield, NJ
Posts: 670
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by saint_foo View Post
So Evan, are you planning on doing an Absurdflow manifold with your stock turbo? You won't go for a GT2560R or something?
Sure, I'd like to get the bigger, better turbo. But money is a factor. Another major factor is that getting Tim's "direct replacement" manifold lets me keep my existing Absurdflow SGDP.

In theory the bigger turbo + more ordinary downpipe might make more power. But I'd be nuts to willingly part with this bit of welding ****:

evank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2009, 12:36 PM   #73
Elite Member
iTrader: (5)
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Freehold, NJ
Posts: 1,577
Total Cats: -2
Default

tim my exahust is 3" the whole way. i'm dynoing in sept cause there is a big day that i go to every year. 50$ for 3 pulls. you should come i think paul is and most likely the rest of the turbo mob
disturbedfan121 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2009, 01:19 PM   #74
Elite AbsurdFlow Member
 
Laur3ns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Enschede, NL
Posts: 2,058
Total Cats: 11
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
and that dirty dutch guy.
Because of this, I will post some pornographic movie tonight, involving
Laur3ns is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2009, 01:36 PM   #75
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (9)
 
TurboTim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chesterfield, NJ
Posts: 6,479
Total Cats: 248
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by disturbedfan121 View Post
tim my exahust is 3" the whole way. i'm dynoing in sept cause there is a big day that i go to every year. 50$ for 3 pulls. you should come i think paul is and most likely the rest of the turbo mob
Sure...I doubt I can get a different setup on my car by then, unless thesnowboarder doesn't mind me dynoing his v-band setup on my car before I ship it to him Ohhh that'd be fun.
TurboTim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2009, 02:38 PM   #76
Elite Member
iTrader: (5)
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Freehold, NJ
Posts: 1,577
Total Cats: -2
Default

lol
disturbedfan121 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2009, 03:14 PM   #77
Elite Member
iTrader: (15)
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Incline Village, NV
Posts: 2,073
Total Cats: 5
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboTim View Post
Sure...I doubt I can get a different setup on my car by then, unless thesnowboarder doesn't mind me dynoing his v-band setup on my car before I ship it to him Ohhh that'd be fun.
Might one be compensated?

might not be a bad idea to show effects of compression ratio..
thesnowboarder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2009, 12:10 AM   #78
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 350
Total Cats: -2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spookyfish View Post
Because of this, I will post some pornographic movie tonight, involving
Mmmmm...Hazet.
SolarYellow510 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2009, 03:07 PM   #79
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ashburn, VA
Posts: 444
Total Cats: 0
Default

Finally picked up my car on Saturday. Thanks a bunch to Paul and Tim!

The car was 99% ready. I needed it (wanted it badly) so picked it up even though they could've done a little more. There was a last minute thing Tim did that changed the tune Paul did. I told them that it was good enough and I'd bug/bribe Braineack to check it down here in NoVA.

Impression: Verrry nice! I'll get pics sometime up. Maybe this weekend? There's a lot more room (turbo side) than I expected. Remember, I've not only got P/S and A/C...but ABS! Doh! That proved to be a "what the heck? Who the hell has ABS?" thingy. So, thankfully there was much routing and what-not...the stuff runs.

Things lingering:
1) need to tweak the tune on the lower throttle position stuff (I'm running MS and factory ECU so I can pass Virginia emissions - damn OBDII stuff).
2) find out why my stereo makes an annoying, high-pitched sound. I'm guessing it's noise in the power cables from the MS that the amp is picking up.
3) get better clutch. My carbon-kevlar clutch was purchased when I was thinking of just upgrading an N/A setup. Ahhh, it can only handle about 180ft-lbs....not 260!!! Mixed blessing. I know my car's got plenty of power now.
4) upgrade radiator and remove the Racing Beat sway bar brace. That brace just totally gets in the way. ARGH.

All in all, it was about what I expected! I knew that it probably would take a bit, so well worth the wait! Beautiful work done by Tim, Paul, and Shore Motorsports...as well as my local shop, Andrewtech (typically Subarus). TurboXS has been helpful as well, and threw in the BOV for free. For not getting an off-the-shelf solution (except some BeGI parts, thanks guys!) this was well-crafted.

Tim was great to work with as well as Paul. Gracias guys! And thanks Braineack for pointing me in that direction. I hope to get dynoplots soon. I also had mild headwork done (99 head, JDM intake cam, mild port, Supertech springs, milled/decked, etc) so it should be neat to see how I compare to Paul and Artie.
saint_foo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2009, 03:11 PM   #80
Tour de Franzia
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

Yeah, Tim's work is the "mil-spec" offering of the miata world.
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Project Gemini - Turbo Civic on the Cheap Full_Tilt_Boogie Build Threads 57 07-19-2017 05:11 PM
15x10 - 15x11 6UL @ 949 Racing emilio700 Wheels and Tires 151 06-02-2017 03:36 PM
1991 special edition with hard top full part out JC, NJ russian Miata parts for sale/trade 6 10-08-2015 04:01 PM
Low oil pressure after 1.8 swap and new turbo setup JesseTheNoob DIY Turbo Discussion 15 09-30-2015 03:44 PM
WTB 90-97 miata low profile headlight kit DonPlatt WTB 0 09-25-2015 03:57 AM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:12 PM.