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Old 11-29-2007, 10:53 AM   #1
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Default Billet Fuel Rail!

I've been talking with ETD Racing and throwing out the idea of them building and producing some Billet Fuel Rails for the Miata community. John is very interested and prepared to create and mass produce some Billet fuel rails at a great price.

- He has a few questions... What is the ideal price point; Keep in mind they are not a $50 item to produce when your C&C'ing them out of a chunk of aluminum.

- Which model would you like to be produced first? 90-93, 94-97 or 99-04

- Would you be interested in a 10 Person Group buy (per model) in order to have the product come to market quicker and at a discounted price. (Tell me what price you would expect)

- I know FM sells fuel rails, and I personally own a vishnu for my 2000. Who else actually sells a GOOD Billet fuel rail?
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Old 11-29-2007, 10:56 AM   #2
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if they aren't $50, don't expect many here to buy them.
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Old 11-29-2007, 10:57 AM   #3
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Why not just buy extruded fuel rail stock already to go from ross machine and they can do the drilling and tapping for the injectors and fittings. There is no reason to reinvent the wheel and spend a bunch of money cncing a rail from a block of aluminum.

The only thing keeping me from doing it myself is that the drill bit for the injector holes is like $150 or some ****.

I personally am not willing to pay more than $100 for a fuel rail considering what it is and how simple it is to make.
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Old 11-29-2007, 11:14 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neogenesis2004 View Post
Why not just buy extruded fuel rail stock already to go from ross machine and they can do the drilling and tapping for the injectors and fittings. There is no reason to reinvent the wheel and spend a bunch of money cncing a rail from a block of aluminum.

The only thing keeping me from doing it myself is that the drill bit for the injector holes is like $150 or some ****.

I personally am not willing to pay more than $100 for a fuel rail considering what it is and how simple it is to make.
The way I've done this in the past is to use an end mill that's slightly undersized for the injector o-rings (.005" from ideal sealing), then use a dremel with a polishing wheel smooth the bore out as much as possible. No special drill bit, the end mills are also a lot stiffer and more accurate. Just make sure you get a center cut or a "plunge" end mill.

You could also create the spotface for an SAE port using an endmill and drill press. Obviously it's nothing too fancy, but a lot cheaper than buying one. If I get a new drill press for x-mas I'll do a little write up with pictures as I need to make one for my car.
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Old 11-29-2007, 11:36 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neogenesis2004 View Post
Why not just buy extruded fuel rail stock already to go from ross machine and they can do the drilling and tapping for the injectors and fittings. There is no reason to reinvent the wheel and spend a bunch of money cncing a rail from a block of aluminum.
This would involve labour to drill and tap the holes, and make brackets to mount the rail and therefore would be part of the cost. CNC is a one time cost, and then it is simple, fast and easy to produce them.

Also, is there enough room to use the rail stock and still fit the FPR etc. I remember my 1.6 with a **** Rail was a bitch, and the vishnu was not much easier.

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I personally am not willing to pay more than $100 for a fuel rail considering what it is and how simple it is to make.
Are you saying $100 is a good price for a group buy for a BILLET rail? Not saying it can be done, but asking the question.
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Old 11-29-2007, 11:39 AM   #6
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$50-ill be in on it asap
$100-it'll go on my eventually list
more than $100-ill forget i ever read this...
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Old 11-29-2007, 11:42 AM   #7
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$50 is impossible.. Unless we can arrange a group buy in the 100,000 pieces and get it mass produced in asia. Even then it might not be possible..
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Old 11-29-2007, 11:48 AM   #8
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It costs no more than $18 for the extruded fuel rail. No more than $10 for the fittings off the rail. The bit to drill the holes is less than $10 on ebay or other supplier. The stainless braided lines would run around $40 tops.
That is with me going out and buying the stuff right now at retail prices. Not wholesale large order prices.
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Old 11-29-2007, 12:17 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
if they aren't $50, don't expect many here to buy them.
Exactly.
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Old 11-29-2007, 12:18 PM   #10
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In at $100, out at a penny more. I'd do a 94-97 1.8 first since more people with that engine are at the power level where a dual feed would even be needed.
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Old 11-29-2007, 12:24 PM   #11
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+1 on 94-97...
dont mean to knock on your good intensions, but you did ask what would be reasonable for us...a DIY dual feed is just way too simple to make and works just fine, the only reason id buy one is so i can be lazy and have another good looking piece under my hood
appreciate the effort, keep up the good work
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Old 11-29-2007, 12:29 PM   #12
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Dual feed DIY stocker doesn't add more volume in the rail. There comes a point somewhere where a bigger rail should be used. If that's at 275, 325, 400 hp I don't know.

$75, and I'd rock it. Don't think that it's economically viable for the manufacturer at that level though.
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Old 11-29-2007, 12:38 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neogenesis2004 View Post
Why not just buy extruded fuel rail stock already to go from ross machine and they can do the drilling and tapping for the injectors and fittings. There is no reason to reinvent the wheel and spend a bunch of money cncing a rail from a block of aluminum.

The only thing keeping me from doing it myself is that the drill bit for the injector holes is like $150 or some ****.

I personally am not willing to pay more than $100 for a fuel rail considering what it is and how simple it is to make.

I dunno guys, I've seen those fancy injector bung drill bits and wondered why. You don't need the step on a miata fuel rail. I just used a regular ol' drill bit on my fuel rails. Make sure it's sharp and it'll leave a fine surface finish. Add good o-rings and it won't leak.
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Old 11-29-2007, 12:45 PM   #14
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Then it should be even cheaper I don't have access to a drill press though.
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Old 11-29-2007, 12:47 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboTim View Post
I dunno guys, I've seen those fancy injector bung drill bits and wondered why. You don't need the step on a miata fuel rail. I just used a regular ol' drill bit on my fuel rails. Make sure it's sharp and it'll leave a fine surface finish. Add good o-rings and it won't leak.
The fancy drill bit is for drilling holes for the injectors to sit in an intake manifold with the appropriate grommets.
Just have to solve the issues of how to attach the stock regulator.
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Old 11-29-2007, 12:51 PM   #16
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No the fancy bit is to flare out the hole at the end so that the o-ring goes in the hole without snagging anything. Its just made so it does it all in one fell swoop instead of drilling a hole and then rounding the edge in separate steps
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Old 11-29-2007, 03:37 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neogenesis2004 View Post
No the fancy bit is to flare out the hole at the end so that the o-ring goes in the hole without snagging anything. Its just made so it does it all in one fell swoop instead of drilling a hole and then rounding the edge in separate steps
so just get a 60* mill bit, that would leave a 30* chamfer on the hole which is pretty much industry standard for o-ring guides. Still a sub $20 tool.
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Old 11-29-2007, 03:44 PM   #18
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Like I said, I have no drill press. I'm not about to try to make a fual rail with an electric drill.
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Old 11-29-2007, 03:48 PM   #19
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I have a press, but it's old and a bit out of balance. Don't think I could get the precision required.
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Old 11-29-2007, 04:23 PM   #20
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So what about the stock regulator? Everyone want to use an external one?
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