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Maybe your ebc is reacting backwards to the numbers in the table.. Did you try to run at 0 and 100? A 2560 with a shut wastegate should fly to the moon and back and blow up your engine while doing so.
I verified the direction of the EBC through the trouble shooting process......twice. I did have it backwards and once the wastegate goes wide open the pressure dives.
It's common knowledge around here that the 2560 will blow up a stock block right? I grabbed the compressor map of the interwebs and had a look.
If you use the link I posted earlier at 450cc of fuel at 6000 rpm plus I should be making ~275 flywheel HP which equates to 26-28 lb/min of air. I'm doing that at 10ish psi. which is 1.68 pressure ratio if you run those two numbers across this graph you hit the choke line of the graph on the right. This would explain the turbo "running out of breath" Now I'm just a nerd with a green belt in google foo, that's what the math tells me. I'll take real world results over napkin math any day but with the hodgepodge of parts I have I'm not sure there are too many people with the same setup, most have gone with a bigger turbo and shooting for 300hp plus. You can see at higher pressure ratio's the turbo flows more and you can bet your *** the rated 330hp that garrett uses is at the high end of this map with a 2.25 pressure ratio or better. Dyno would be great tool here, but I want to maximize my time on the dyno and rather not being chasing a boost leak or tooling around trying to figure out why my turbo won't make the expected boost.
I'm still not discounting a boost leak, a quick look last night showed all the clamps appear to be tight. I did find a couple of lower injector seals that look to be torn which would explain that wiff of fuel I get every now and then through the vents under boost. It's always dry when I check for leaks but I'm guessing a small amount of fuel is getting blown around these cut seals under positive manifold pressure. Now I'm about 90% sure there is no way enough air is leaking around these tiny cuts to effect pressure. I'll also going pull off the mistu BOV and rig up a way to test and see at what pressure it begins to leak through.
You could run a virtual dyno off of your log and see if you are in the ball park. Mine is well under 200hp with a 2554 at 10 psi with great flowing everything
Good suggestion, I'll have to do that when I get off the road next weekend.
Do you know your fuel flow is on your setup? AFR, Fuel pressure, duty cycle and RPM will let me figure out a rough estimation. Mega log viewer will do the math for you as well from a log.
Good suggestion, I'll have to do that when I get off the road next weekend.
Do you know your fuel flow is on your setup? AFR, Fuel pressure, duty cycle and RPM will let me figure out a rough estimation. Mega log viewer will do the math for you as well from a log.
Another weekend and a few more steps forward. After doing more research I found that turbo's don't stop making air at the "choke" point, just the amount of heat created goes up exponentially. With that new found knowledge I kept digging and found that blowing open the wastegate flapper is a thing. Wastegate springs have a bottom end as well as a top end.....Good to know. I had a few threads left on the actuator arm so I pulled it off and shortened the female end a 1/8" and tightened it up. I went to far and would hit boost cut instantly. I part throttled the revs to 6k and tried it there and hit boost cut again so that confirms there is boost to be had at the top end. I was short on time this weekend so I was able to get it adjusted to get back to the peak of 11.5psi at low revs and tapering off to 9 to 10psi at redline. It still seems like the EBC isn't doing a whole lot so I'm starting to suspect a torn actuator diaphragm. I'll investigate further next weekend. I have an actuator off a 7.3 Ford that should work once I shortened the shaft so that's plan B.
In other news, I can now hook up first gear.
The rivals were starting to develop a tread splice.
Been a while since the last update........one step forward......two back.
So the 6 speed in this car was abused by the prior owner and down right tortured by myself. It always had a whine in lower gears and a bit of gear whirl when in neutral with the clutch engaged at idle. It also had orange silicone at the case split lines so someone has been into it before.
Pulled into the garage and heard what I thought was a rod knock until I realized.......
Noise goes away when I push in the clutch. So out comes the trans:
Oil drain shows the ford unicorn tears have a bit of sparkle
Luckily this happened before it's first auto-x so I didn't waste a trip. New 6 speed will be here this week.
Before the trans broke I was continuing to investigate why my boost control was not really working as intended. I could control the boost, but not well. My PID settings are 175/150/100 right now which is just crazy compared to others. I also confirmed that I was blowing open the factory wastegate controller so I ordered up a cheapy ebay dual port.
This solved the waste gate getting blown open issue but was not any more responsive to commanded boost than before. The MS would progressively ramp up the duty cycle as boost dropped off as RPM's climbed but boost would still taper off 20 kpa from peak.
Next step is to move the pressure source for the wastegate from a manifold source (see's vaccume) to a port before the throttle body. I'll get back to testing this after the trans goes in.
Couple other things I found:
Down pipe flange is sealing well with the shim gasket, and either I forgot to tighten the O2 sensor or it loosened up. Be interested to see if my AFR's richen up now that there isn't fresh air leaking around the threads.
I had to modify my cheapie eBay 2 port can to get the 2nd port to actually hold any pressure. It would blow out the shaft and bolt holes. I used the valve stem area of an old bike inner tube and a few o rings, lubed the shaft with faucet and valve grease. Holds 20psi no problem now.
You shouldn't need to relocate your boost pressure source with the EBC. If the boost duty is increasing and boost is falling off your gate is still blowing open.
You shouldn't need to relocate your boost pressure source with the EBC. If the boost duty is increasing and boost is falling off your gate is still blowing open.
Bronson says:
"Next step is to move the pressure source for the wastegate from a manifold source (see's vacuume sic)"
So he needs to relocate his boost source because it is in the worst possible place, AFTER the throttle.
For EBC or a system with boost creep: right at the compressor housing is best. For a system with boost droop, right before the throttle valve is best. After the throttle valve is never correct.
Last edited by DNMakinson; 04-27-2017 at 07:50 PM.
Reason: Autocorrect keeps giving issue
Well technically with EBC it'll function the same right before the throttle body as it would right after the turbo since the MAP sensor will compensate for any boost loss across the intake tract.
My research and observations show it actually still works post throttle body with a single port actuator since the vaccum at part throttle will just keep the wastegate closed. The downside is the actuator isn't designed for vaccum so it'll eventually fail and there are certain situations where you could be making big boost against a closed throttle plate.
The real reason I moved it is with a dual port and the EBC the vaccum will now be trying to open the wastegate at part throttle. I also think the 4' of 3/16" vaccum line is causing lag in the actuator response. There's also that whole thing where a lot of smart people said to move it with no real explanation as to why. It was an experiment, didn't work great and now I know why.
I had to modify my cheapie eBay 2 port can to get the 2nd port to actually hold any pressure. It would blow out the shaft and bolt holes. I used the valve stem area of an old bike inner tube and a few o rings, lubed the shaft with faucet and valve grease. Holds 20psi no problem now.
Holy crap you weren't kidding, all the air I could squirt with an air chuck set at 20psi just blasted out from around the shaft. It was obvious this thing was not operating as a dual port and worse was leaking such a large volume of boost that it was easily outrunning the volume of air available via the 3/16" line I had ran to the manifold so it was no wonder this was not working any better than the single port. At this point I had enough with this lack of boost control so I jumped in with both feet.
I cut open the factory single port controller. Sure enough the diaphragm had a tear in it so that's why I had such limited control over this turd.
This thing looked pretty simple, I had some aluminum bar stock handy so I started whittling out my own dual port controller.......(Jeremy Clarkson voice) how hard could it be?
Aluminum machines so nice with a sharp bit.
Using Sonofthehill's suggestion I cannibalized an old tire valve to make a shaft seal. This works really well and still allows for some misalignment of the shaft. With 20psi on the canister you could just feel a little air escaping around the seal. Should work great.
I then cut open the new "dual port" wastegate controller and found something interesting. The guts looked identical to the single port.....this isn't good because when you put pressure on the rod side of the piston it does nothing but push the bellow out of the way. So sonofthehill, even with your clever valve stem seal it's still not functioning as a dual port should.....very frustrating. You can also see the sorry excuse of a felt seal in this pic.
I verified this fact by assembling the controller with the guts just as they came out of the stock can and sure enough there was no difference in resistance in pull strength with the air on and off, just spring pressure.
I fixed this by cutting the piston cup off the shaft, threading the end so i could sandwich the cup, bellow seal and a backup washer effectively sealing the bellows to the piston.
I put the whole mess back together for 20th time and success! Air pressure on the rod side now exerts enough force to flex the bracket!. You can also see the ebay dual port controller had a heavier spring. I went with the lightest spring based on the theory that I should be able to get a wider range of control with a light spring. I was hoping to be able to easily have a spread of 6 to 15 psi with the table switching enabled.
I'm still waiting on my new to me trans to show up so no testing yet, hopefully I can get this turd back on the road next weekend.
In case you were wondering.....no I didn't make this to save a few bucks. It was really just an exercise for me to better understand how these things worked and to play around on the lathe. Spend the extra $$ and get a good quality dual port wastegate controller and move on with life.
03-28-2017, 07:34 AM
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