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DIY Turbo Discussion greddy on a 1.8? homebrew kit?

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Old 05-05-2016, 12:52 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
There's nothing wrong with my excel dyno comparison (or that turbo).

That particular turbo isn't the fastest spooling, i can find plenty of plots with it on a 1.6L looking exactly the same, but on a 1.8L it just performs so much better.


That was Shuiend's setup vs. Curly. I'll find the plots.
Looking back at my Begi Churbo/1.6/2.5" exhaust plot it was making 175wtq @ 4000 so I guess 150 isn't so far off. Just crazy that the identical turbo would look THAT much different on any 1.8 (Was it a 99+?)
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Old 05-05-2016, 12:55 PM   #42
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If you ran the t3 instead of the shitty begi churbo you'd of been able to bend rods at 4,000 if you so desired, probably with a 2.5 exhaust too.
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Old 05-05-2016, 12:58 PM   #43
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If you ran the t3 instead of the shitty begi churbo you'd of been able to bend rods at 4,000 if you so desired, probably with a 2.5 exhaust too.
When I got that Begi setup I didn't know squat about fitting turbo parts together, so it was the best turbo+mani+dp solution I knew of for $1200. But we don't really need to spark up this argument again. Besides, the 2554R hasn't even bent anything yet making 200wtq @ 3400.
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Old 05-05-2016, 01:03 PM   #44
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I'm not calling you an idiot or anything, I'm just saying that the best and cheapest way is t3 although it requires welding a custom downpipe for the 1.6 taco manifold or straight buying mkturbo from lars. Because of your experience, anything else on a budget 1.6 doesn't really make much sense.
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Old 05-05-2016, 01:08 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1993z32 View Post
Looking back at my Begi Churbo/1.6/2.5" exhaust plot it was making 175wtq @ 4000 so I guess 150 isn't so far off. Just crazy that the identical turbo would look THAT much different on any 1.8 (Was it a 99+?)
no. a '94 motor with Begi parts.
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Old 05-05-2016, 01:08 PM   #46
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This is relevant to my interest
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Old 05-05-2016, 01:10 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by deezums View Post
I'm not calling you an idiot or anything, I'm just saying that the best and cheapest way is t3 although it requires welding a custom downpipe for the 1.6 taco manifold or straight buying mkturbo from lars. Because of your experience, anything else on a budget 1.6 doesn't really make much sense.
Had I known better then, I would have gone with the MKTurbo setup in a hearbeat. Between the performance of that turbo and the.... iffy... customer service; I steer people away from that turbo like it's the plague. I have datalogs of the worst spoolup characteristics I've ever seen with that thing, 3.5psi @ 3000, then down to 3.0psi @ 3200 before spooling all the way up........ how does that even work?
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Old 05-05-2016, 01:10 PM   #48
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here's another 1.6L with that same SR20 turbo on a begi manifold, but this was a 2.25" exhaust and running MS1:





the begi chrubo is probably the worst turbo ever made on the planet. horrible spool coupled with horrible output.
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Old 05-05-2016, 01:15 PM   #49
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here's the actual plot of Shuiend's:



i can plot this against better 1.8L setups and put it to shame. but those turbos werent $100...

like:

from the same dynoday.
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Old 05-05-2016, 01:17 PM   #50
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the begi chrubo is probably the worst turbo ever made on the planet. horrible spool coupled with horrible output.
Do you think this is just because of the mismatch of wheels? Would a Garrett GT2854R be just as **** on a Miata engine?
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Old 05-05-2016, 01:21 PM   #51
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I think it's just a poor copy from china. There's other churbos people have tried that paled in comparison to the real thing. My T3 50 trim, however, performed very well, so good in fact i never put my Garrett back on.


The 2854 is very similar to the T3 50 trim.

slightly larger turbine, but very similar wheel as far as output (even though it's physically bigger).
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Old 05-05-2016, 01:27 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
I think it's just a poor copy from china. There's other churbos people have tried that paled in comparison to the real thing. My T3 50 trim, however, performed very well, so good in fact i never put my Garrett back on.


The 2854 is very similar to the T3 50 trim.

slightly larger turbine still, but very similar wheel as far as output (even though it's physically bigger).
To go slightly off topic, it seems like both boost threshold and transient response are affected more by the turbine wheel and housing, and less by the size/weight of the compressor wheel, would you say compressor wheel selection is more about efficiency for the boost level/CFM range you're going to be in? (i.e. even though a 2871 might spool similar to a 2860, if you're running a boost level that's more efficient with the 60, it's a better choice?)
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Old 05-05-2016, 01:36 PM   #53
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I think it all comes into play; but a 71mm wheel is just inherently going to have slower spool compared to a 54mm one.

But the 71mm wheel could technically make more power per PSI during spool up so it doesn't even matter:





look at boost plots compared to output.

71 vs 60mm turbos.
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Last edited by Braineack; 05-05-2016 at 01:49 PM.
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Old 05-05-2016, 01:43 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
I think it all comes into play; but a 71mm wheel is just inherently going to have slower spool compared to a 54mm one.

But the 71mm wheel could technically make more power at least PSI during spool up so it doesn't even matter:

::tying to find the image to post here::
That's another thing I'm trying to understand, a bigger compressor wheel should make more power at a lower speed, so how much does it really affect the engine response? This is why I bought another turbo for my car (can't tell you what it is or I'd get banned), just to drive it, dyno it back to back, give feedback, and do it all over again with another turbo. The car will probably perform worse overall, but I want to experience it for myself and get some real world results instead of looking at dynos/compressor maps/ videos all day.
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Old 05-05-2016, 01:50 PM   #55
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mass weight force science stuff.
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Old 05-05-2016, 02:11 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
I think it all comes into play; but a 71mm wheel is just inherently going to have slower spool compared to a 54mm one.

But the 71mm wheel could technically make more power per PSI during spool up so it doesn't even matter:

look at boost plots compared to output.

71 vs 60mm turbos.
Okay so looking at that plot, assuming all other variables were the same or reasonably close, why would anyone choose a 60mm over a 71mm with the same hotside? It makes 5 more psi @ 3700, but almost no extra power. Then an extra 60wtq at 4700 at only 2psi more... that sounds awesome.
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Old 05-05-2016, 09:55 PM   #57
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it was my t3 super 60 vs my friends 2871.
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Old 05-08-2016, 02:33 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shuiend View Post
Otherwise it is always better and cheaper to start with a 1.8 car.
Unless you live in CA, land of the rust-free, clean $1500 NA6 and insanely high-priced NB2.
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Old 05-09-2016, 12:35 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deezums View Post
For whatever it's worth, a MKturbo setup on a 1.6 should have absolutely no problem making a torque curve like Brian has on that 1.8 excel chart there. It should take more boost to do it, but mine will overspool 16 pounds at 3,000 rpm on a 4th roll and I'm not even using e85 any more. I seem to be just as fast as a slightly heavier NB running the same kit on the 1/4, which is cool.
Not sure if you mean my car, but I would say that Deezums 1.6 is just as fast as my NB1, I might spool a few rpms sooner but not much. I am spooling 1k rpm later with the larger cold side but my car is just as fast in the 1/4 mile.
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