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Old 12-30-2012, 11:01 PM   #61
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I have personally rebuilt a miata engine that got toasted by running a honda radiator just at the beginning of this year. It was an aftermarket super thick like 4" one too.

Just sayin
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Old 12-30-2012, 11:11 PM   #62
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I have personally rebuilt a miata engine that got toasted by running a honda radiator just at the beginning of this year. It was an aftermarket super thick like 4" one too.

Just sayin
Yeah I don't doubt that at all. I'm not looking to run a Honda rad, never was trying to run a rad that small.
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Old 12-31-2012, 12:04 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by dumpdbassethound View Post
But the fact that the OP of that thread states he's had no cooling issues with hard driving on 90 degree plus days. And again I said the setup I was looking to run would have a bigger rad then he runs. This pic from that thread is what I was looking to achieve.

Intercooler piping route photo by Wideopentuning | Photobucket
Let me introduce you to the post image function:


So the problem here is ... it's a nice pic, but a bad idea. Don't run your air/air intercooler behind the radiator. Don't run the water radiator of your air/water intercooler behind the engine coolant radiator.

Another thing. You should not be concerned with the total length of intercooler tubing. It is simply not relevant to vehicle performance, whether that be measured in 1/4 mile times, lap times, or dorifting if that's your thing.
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Old 12-31-2012, 12:36 AM   #64
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Let me introduce you to the post image function:


So the problem here is ... it's a nice pic, but a bad idea. Don't run your air/air intercooler behind the radiator. Don't run the water radiator of your air/water intercooler behind the engine coolant radiator.

Another thing. You should not be concerned with the total length of intercooler tubing. It is simply not relevant to vehicle performance, whether that be measured in 1/4 mile times, lap times, or dorifting if that's your thing.
I'm posting from my phone, much easier to copy and paste the link. In that picture the rad would still be behind the IC. If you can run your IC piping over the rad under the rad should work too just like that picture. But the rad would prob have to be raised slightly
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Old 12-31-2012, 12:51 AM   #65
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Your piping could be 10 ft. long and your turbo could fill it faster than you could sneeze. It is not an obstacle that needs overcoming.
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Old 12-31-2012, 01:31 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by dumpdbassethound View Post
I'm posting from my phone, much easier to copy and paste the link. In that picture the rad would still be behind the IC. If you can run your IC piping over the rad under the rad should work too just like that picture. But the rad would prob have to be raised slightly
It doesnt matter, both ways the rad will need to be moved slightly. One way it gets moved up and back, the other way it gets moved down and back.
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Old 12-31-2012, 01:54 AM   #67
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A lot of good advice has been given and ignored so far here. So, in the name of futility, I'll contribute some data points that, I'm sure, will be ignored (others read these posts so it's not really completely in vain).

You can, of course, run WI alone and get a lot of protection against detonation. I do this and run 10psi. Have for about 15K with no det. This is not the ticket to big power though. Intake temperatures get hot leading to low intake density and low power output. Despite all the hype about "chemical intercooling," you don't actually see a lot of cooling effect of the intake charge -- nothing like a real intercooler. This is mainly because it takes time for the water/alcohol to evaporate, and the intake air is really moving with the throttle open. Also, high pressure air holds less water than low pressure air, so it naturally inhibits the evaporation. You'll see more evaporative cooling in the intake if you run more alcohol. The flip side is that alcohol is not nearly as capable at knock suppression through absorbing combustion heat as water (water consumes about twice as much heat when changes from liquid to gaseous phase). Over time, I've settled upon a 50% mixture -- seems to be what most run.

A word on our heat exchangers. They work on a principle called conduction. The flow of heat via conduction is proportional to the difference in temperature between the cooling air and the fluid within the heat exchanger. If you just keep that one principle in mind, it should become obvious where you need to place your heat exchangers for the different fluids we care about (engine coolant, engine oil, and intake air). Bottom line, if you need to cool to a low temperature, put it near the front where it can see near-ambient cooling air. If you only need to cool to something like 150 degrees (like coolant or oil), then you can put it behind other heat exchangers and still get cooling. Everythings a compromise. There is only so much cooling available from the air being swallowed by the Miata's mouth, so use it wisely.
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Old 12-31-2012, 09:25 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by dumpdbassethound View Post
This is what i saw, thats why i thought it was possible to run a smaller rad because this guy says he has no cooling issues.

you noticed hasn't written back since 2009, right?

Hell, I believe Flyin Miata stopped producing their side-by-side oil cooler / radiator due to cooling issues.

Also, the fact that you have 240 friends tells me you're not ready.
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Old 12-31-2012, 09:45 AM   #69
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you noticed hasn't written back since 2009, right?

Hell, I believe Flyin Miata stopped producing their side-by-side oil cooler / radiator due to cooling issues.

Also, the fact that you have 240 friends tells me you're not ready.
The fact that he is listening to his 240 friends about what to do on a miata makes me want to just ban him. Also that he thinks the slightly shorter pipes will make a difference in spool, even when in the thread he was looking at Corky says it does not matter.
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Old 12-31-2012, 03:32 PM   #70
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The fact that he is listening to his 240 friends about what to do on a miata makes me want to just ban him. Also that he thinks the slightly shorter pipes will make a difference in spool, even when in the thread he was looking at Corky says it does not matter.
Hahah ban me cause I wanted shorter cleaner looking IC piping..... And cause I took advice from a friend and brought it somewhere to people who know their miatas to see what they thought. Thought that's what this place was for.
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Old 12-31-2012, 03:50 PM   #71
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umad bro?
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Old 12-31-2012, 04:36 PM   #72
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umad bro?
Nah haha I just think its funny, I explained where I got my idea from six times and said ill prob be going over the rad but you think I've been ignoring your advice hahaha
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Old 12-31-2012, 04:38 PM   #73
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Its frustrating when people ignore your posts huh?
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Old 12-31-2012, 04:49 PM   #74
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It is difficult for us to parse and understand your posts so we really have no clue wtf you do and do not understand from the advice given you so far. Honestly, even for phone posts, you are coming across as semi-literate at best.

Have you read these books? My first and third grade sons love them. They won't teach you how to spell, but you could definitely pick up clues about where and how to use punctuation.
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Old 12-31-2012, 05:01 PM   #75
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I haven't torn off the bumper cover yet, but I am considering mounting my IC to the bottom of the upper radiator support and running the tubing between the rad and the headlights. This would put the IC behind the AC condenser, but not behind the radiator. I don't care about the length of the IC piping because it really doesn't matter, but I would prefer not to have to come up past the PS and coolant lines. High mounting the IC should allow me to come strait out with welded 90's and sit just above each frame rail. I was thinking about some shrouding to increase delta P across all of the heat exchangers hoping that I would not introduce cooling issues. Any thoughts? My car is an NB so no popup clearance issues.
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Old 12-31-2012, 05:06 PM   #76
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so why the hell not just replicate the msm routing which would be 10x easier and effective?
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Old 12-31-2012, 05:17 PM   #77
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18PSI,
Can you post a pic of the MS setup? I don't have one and would like to see it. It seems like you get real upset when people create trouble for themselves. I am sorry it is so hard for you, and I really appreciate that you care so much about everyone else on these forums.
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Old 12-31-2012, 05:24 PM   #78
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I did find a pic of the IC and piping on FM but it was not complete. Just pics of engine bays don't really give you a good sense of routing. There are times in the name of mass production the the bean counters take control and limit the quality and functionality of the OEM components. Where people spend time and money replacing the MS parts I can only assume better setups can be produced.
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Old 12-31-2012, 05:39 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seralan View Post
18PSI,
Can you post a pic of the MS setup? I don't have one and would like to see it. It seems like you get real upset when people create trouble for themselves. I am sorry it is so hard for you, and I really appreciate that you care so much about everyone else on these forums.
n00bs like you flatter yourselves and think I actually get upset.

Sorry to disappoint: I don't.


Quote:
Originally Posted by seralan View Post
I did find a pic of the IC and piping on FM but it was not complete. Just pics of engine bays don't really give you a good sense of routing. There are times in the name of mass production the the bean counters take control and limit the quality and functionality of the OEM components. Where people spend time and money replacing the MS parts I can only assume better setups can be produced.
I have an active thread right now in which both are discussed and pictured. If you're not bright enough to find the MANY discussions we've already had regarding intercoolers over and over again, just search threads made by me and it will be among the most recent few.

MSM routing is not made by bean counters. I replicated it on my '00 and not only does look nice and is simple, but your car was actually made to work with it perfectly.

Check it out.
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Old 12-31-2012, 05:52 PM   #80
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Through all my years of being involved with cars and forums I have never encountered a bigger DB then you sir! Good job!! It would have been just as effective to post a link to you discussion, but I know it's hard for you to be helpful before being difficult. I will however search for it since that is the reason I joined this forum in the first place. It is funny how the nice opening PM for this forum is about your wonderful helpful community of like minded Miata fans and when people who are new to this forum post they get treated like s^#t. It's unfortunate, that you beatiful day has to be spoiled by having to so consistently s&#t talk anyone else who dares post on your forum.
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