When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
As soon as I get my motor back together I am throwing the turbo back on, I have ms3 pro and am wondering if I shoukd set it up for boost contol or get something else. I had a ms1 last time I was boosted, and it wasnt the best at controlling the pressure so I went mbc. What boost controller should I go with?
The turbo that will be going on is an efr 6758 with iwg and diverter and its going on a 94 block with a 99 head n stuff.
Ms3 has really good boost control. Basic open loop works well, which is what I'm using on my 6258 ms3 setup.
and if you can figure out how to properly setup closed loop boost control, it works real good. But tricky to setup.
Your EFR should have a solenoid mounted to the front of the compressor housing, you can get the wiring pigtail from full race for $13. Power either end with B+, then send the other to the EBC pin of your ECU. If you choose to do open loop, run the 2nd wire to a toggle switch, then to the ECU. Any time you have issues with your open loop setup, or simply want lower power, switch this toggle off and you'll run on wastegate only. For instance, I was over boosting on a very cold morning, this switch would have saved my ***. It also rains a lot here, not a bad switch to have.
I would however, suggest following one of the many CL writeups and getting that to work. You can still interrupt the signal to switch it off.
Im using the GFB boost controller ii, came with solenoid and has a few nice options for making changes on the fly, and allows for customizable scramble button
Im using the GFB boost controller ii, came with solenoid and has a few nice options for making changes on the fly, and allows for customizable scramble button
ATX, how do you like it? I'm looking for a good EBC and the new 3 seems good on paper. Is for my 1.8 & 6258 setup and I need help with boost droop at higher RPM, my Profec-B just isn't up to the task. Any details on your experience would be great....
ATX, how do you like it? I'm looking for a good EBC and the new 3 seems good on paper. Is for my 1.8 & 6258 setup and I need help with boost droop at higher RPM, my Profec-B just isn't up to the task. Any details on your experience would be great....
Hey Wally, I still really like the GFB unit. I'm using it with my built 1.8 and 6258 setup. I haven't increased the gain to get a flat boost curve because I like lower boost at lower RPMs for mechanical empathy and traction reasons. You basically set a duty cycle (starting from 10 or 15) and do a few runs without leaving that part of the menu. It will log the pulls and label that tune slot as the max boost reached with that duty cycle. Increase DC if max boost is too low until happy.
From there, you go into gain to adjust how fast it tries to reach that boost level, so it can increase duty cycle beyond where you have it set for maximum boost at lower RPMs. Then, the sensitivity function is used to keep it from over compensating. I haven't had any issues with it at all yet. I blew up my stock motor using the open loop MS2 boost control setup. This is way more robust and even the solenoid is of higher quality.
I also wired in a "High Boost" illuminated LED button on my center console that will put the boost controller into scramble mode. I'm using 16 psi for street and events and 22 psi for scramble won't catch me.
Hey Wally, I still really like the GFB unit. I'm using it with my built 1.8 and 6258 setup. I haven't increased the gain to get a flat boost curve because I like lower boost at lower RPMs for mechanical empathy and traction reasons. You basically set a duty cycle (starting from 10 or 15) and do a few runs without leaving that part of the menu. It will log the pulls and label that tune slot as the max boost reached with that duty cycle. Increase DC if max boost is too low until happy.
From there, you go into gain to adjust how fast it tries to reach that boost level, so it can increase duty cycle beyond where you have it set for maximum boost at lower RPMs. Then, the sensitivity function is used to keep it from over compensating. I haven't had any issues with it at all yet. I blew up my stock motor using the open loop MS2 boost control setup. This is way more robust and even the solenoid is of higher quality.
I also wired in a "High Boost" illuminated LED button on my center console that will put the boost controller into scramble mode. I'm using 16 psi for street and events and 22 psi for scramble won't catch me.
Sounds better than the Profec and the EVIC3/4 I have tried, are you seeing flat boost once spooled at 16 to redline or do you get boost droop as rpm increases? That's the issue I am hoping to get rid of, plus I can't get consistency between a rolling pull from 2k vs. a 1-4 run, rollon hits 17 everytime but the drag won't and drops off more than the roll does. I need to do some logging again to see what it is really doing as the car was down for a few months from blowing the intake half gasket on the Skunk2 while chasing an R8. Oops. As memory serves tho on a 1-4 run I maybe spike to 15 and see 10-11 at redline in every gear, I believe the Profec is just sticking to a fixed DC and I need something with a bit of smarts to it to keep the boost up.
Funny, I blew the skunk2 TB gasket hooning on the highway. Loctite on the bolts and RTV on the gasket helped.
If anything, the boost creeps upwards at higher RPMs, at least on my setup. Not much, only 1 or 2 psi more at 7500 vs 5000. The FM 2560 setup had such a small wastegate I was seeing huge boost creep at higher RPMs
Funny, I blew the skunk2 TB gasket hooning on the highway. Loctite on the bolts and RTV on the gasket helped.
If anything, the boost creeps upwards at higher RPMs, at least on my setup. Not much, only 1 or 2 psi more at 7500 vs 5000. The FM 2560 setup had such a small wastegate I was seeing huge boost creep at higher RPMs
Mine ripped all the inner bolt holes out so I had to make my own replacement, went with fiber sheet and some ultra gray RTV on both sides. So far that's holding up to 17-18psi runs but it's only been maybe 100 miles. I was just out doing some logging to see where I am at, getting 8.3psi @ 3200 to 7psi @ 7200 on the can, and with the Profec seeing (at best) 17.7psi @ 3400 to 12psi @ 7k. I may have to give the GFB a try.
Thats kind of low for just wastegate spring pressure. Which WG canister do you have?
You know, I thought it was the medium one (plan was always to run 17psi) but I can't say I remember that I ever actually checked....? I'm used to around 7psi on the can from previous turbo cars so I didn't think much of this turbo performing that way..... preload was the minimum per the EFR install guide, I believe (it's been two years since I set it up so the details are a bit fuzzy now). I'm going to go look right now, you have me wondering...
You know, I thought it was the medium one (plan was always to run 17psi) but I can't say I remember that I ever actually checked....? I'm used to around 7psi on the can from previous turbo cars so I didn't think much of this turbo performing that way..... preload was the minimum per the EFR install guide, I believe (it's been two years since I set it up so the details are a bit fuzzy now). I'm going to go look right now, you have me wondering...
Just confirmed, has a 179241 sticker.. I'm running the twin scroll which should be the type c housing, .92a/r which that matches up to as medium boost which is the right one, however you are right.. boost is definitely lower than the preload chart shows. Even at zero preload I should have seen crack open at 9psi, not 7.5 or so. Hmm.
I did some testing last year with different preload and charted it... I'll see if I can find it.
Just confirmed, has a 179241 sticker.. I'm running the twin scroll which should be the type c housing, .92a/r which that matches up to as medium boost which is the right one, however you are right.. boost is definitely lower than the preload chart shows. Even at zero preload I should have seen crack open at 9psi, not 7.5 or so. Hmm.
I did some testing last year with different preload and charted it... I'll see if I can find it.
So, here's the logs scatter plotted. with 2mm preload, I was seeing 7.5psi peak, with 5mm preload I was seeing 9.1psi (the crosshairs).
Also shown is the HKS EVC-3 controller results.
Only caveat is that all of this was using the nipple on the compressor outlet hooked to the EFR BCS or the EVC3 inlet. I've since moved the the BCS source port off the compressor housing and to post-IC (right before the TB) so IC losses will be accounted for but honestly the boost droop is still quite pronounced from what I saw yesterday/ I'll try and graph that up and post it.
Here's a scatter plot from yesterday... only WOT with boost signal pulled from just before the TB. Lowest grouping is with EBC off (can pressure of 7-8psi apparently), middle is Profec-B on low boost (12psi) and high is Profec-B on high boost (17psi). Profec controller has a boost signal that is pulled from the same line as what feeds the ECU & boost gauge for consistency. Marker is at peak on a can pressure run, 8.3psi. I believe preload was 2mm at this point, I vaguely recall turning it back from 5mm when I was doing my testing last year because it wasn't helping and I liked the idea of a 7-8psi lazy can boost slope in case the wife was driving the car, it would be only slightly more hairy than her JRSC M45 1.6 and would make me more confident should wasn't going to pile it up when boost hit.
02-25-2020, 05:13 PM
Finally getting my **** together...boost control?
0
As memory serves tho on a 1-4 run I maybe spike to 15 and see 10-11 at redline in every gear, I believe the Profec is just sticking to a fixed DC and I need something with a bit of smarts to it to keep the boost up.
