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Old 09-28-2008, 11:36 AM   #1
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Default Full Lightweight Timing Kit

This is a new product Iím trying out, it is a complete system for cam timing. It replaces the lower cam gear the crank pulley alignment part and both cam gears with new pieces. The cam gears are adjustable and the aim of the system is for everything to be lightweight.



The cam gear features +/- 11 degrees of adjustment.
It weighs in at 215 grams with all fasteners the stock piece is around 420.
All fasteners are stainless steel studs with lock washers
All aluminum parts are 7075 aluminum the strongest grade commercially available.



The next part is the lower cam gear. This part has the same fit and function as the original.



OEM weight 310g and new weight is 95 grams
It is also made from 7075 aluminum
It is manufactured to run just a smidge tighter then the stock piece so it helps keep the keyway in place. You still have to use proper technique when installing though.

The last part is the lower crank pulley alignment piece. This part has the same fit and function as the original.




OEM weight 425g and new weight is 80g
Made from 7075 aluminum
This also runs tight on the crank nose like the other part to help keep the woodruff key in better shape.

All together by replacing all these parts you eliminate 1 kilogram or 2.2 pounds of rotating mass.




Now with this kit Iím also working on but havenít finished yet a timing kit that goes with it so you can put away the paint and easily index all the parts. I haven't finished that yet but it would be compatible with cars regaurdless of if you bought these cam gears or not.

What does everyone think?
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Old 09-28-2008, 12:02 PM   #2
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3 bolts on the cam gears is not enough. Search the original aem 3 bolt gears for
The Honda b series motor, they were an epic failure with slippage of doom.
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Old 09-28-2008, 12:03 PM   #3
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These are 5/16's studs, they hold 70 ft lbs of engine torque collectively. There is no way they will slip. If these slip you don't need cam gears you need camshafts.

The carbon fiber is the same grade I've used in aerospace applications its also extremely strong. I fielded this elseware I've heard the concerns. This is an extremely well engineered setup. Everything has went through physical testing besides the cam gears obviously. I'll test them for slip, but as far as the calculutions they are more then upto the task.
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Old 09-28-2008, 12:06 PM   #4
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do what you will, I'll stick with my 6 bolt fidanza gears for all my cars.
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Old 09-28-2008, 12:08 PM   #5
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Meh, I made these 3 bolt for a reason. 6 untightening and tightening sequences per an adjustment per a gear on a 6 bolt fidanza. Thats 24 bolts to tighten and untighten if your adjusting both gears. No thanks.
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Old 09-28-2008, 12:26 PM   #6
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They have half the bolts, and I have half the confidence in them.
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Old 09-28-2008, 12:30 PM   #7
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looks expensive
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Old 09-28-2008, 12:33 PM   #8
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Your confidence should be with tensile stress area not the number. I'll run the numbers for you on your gears. What size are the bolts in your fidanza and how far are they from the center.

In order to keep these gears from turning your camshafts properly your camshafts would literally have to lock in position at 5000 R.P.M. while your at wide open throttle. 140 ft lbs between the 2 gears is the breaking torque. I don't even have a torque wrench that goes that high.
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Old 09-28-2008, 12:38 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neogenesis2004 View Post
3 bolts on the cam gears is not enough. Search the original aem 3 bolt gears for
The Honda b series motor, they were an epic failure with slippage of doom.
Mazdaspeed gears still have three bolts, evidently they haven't had a problem...
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Old 09-28-2008, 12:44 PM   #10
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I'm gonna say you are wasting your time. There's little market for this. I mean, there are several adjustable cam gears out there already. Maybe if your gears are considerably cheaper (as they don't have the reputation of others) then maybe people will buy them. But as Newgenesis points out most would rather see more bolts as 3 bolt gears have been known to slip. (you gotta figure some people don't even own a torque wrench, much less smart enough to use one.) The weight savings idea I don't buy, especially for the price. I mean, how much does the crankshaft/flywheel/pressure plate/harmonic balancer/stock lower crank pulley alignment piece/lower cam gear actually weigh? Like probably 90 pounds. Dropping 2.2 pounds off of that isn't doing much, especially considering the mass on the pieces you are lightening have a relatively low moment of inertia compared to the flywheel and PP.

Make a pair of adjustable gears for 100 bucks and you'll sell some. The rest, I kinda doubt will sell.
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Old 09-28-2008, 01:13 PM   #11
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These arn't a cure for the low horsepower blues by any means. Its just another little upgrade you can do to help the performance of the car while your in there doing a change oh lets say billet oil pump gears lol.

They increase revability, and transition in the corners as well as decrease shift times.
Now the total weight of rotating components is probably around 35-40 pounds. SO this is a 5-7% reduction.

What I'm aiming for on cost is around 350-370 for the whole kit. 100 per a cam gear and sub hundred for each of the small parts. Now I know alot of people want to replace their crank pulley but can't because there pretty much is nothing else on the market that dampens as well as what the engineers at mazda created. So what this does is basically do the same thing as replace the crank pulley with a lightweight one without removing the dampening effects. Most people say they can tell the difference in that and this would be eqaul to it. I've got the rest of the accesories pulleys that are removable designed as well and those will help lighten up the mass a little more.

I just really love the feeling of a quick response motor, and these are a further step towards that. If nothing else I've got a set for my car, and that definitely makes me happy.
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Old 09-28-2008, 01:24 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TravisR View Post
Now the total weight of rotating components is probably around 35-40 pounds. SO this is a 5-7% reduction.
IIRC, the forged crankshaft alone weighs 45 pounds. I know the flywheel is 18 stock on my 99, the PP has to be 10 pounds, the harmonic balancer has to be 10 pounds. Not even considering the crankshaft I'm up to 38 pounds. The total number is more like 80 pounds. So your parts are more like a couple percent in reduction of total rotating mass.

Make an underdrive pulley for the water pump and I'll buy one. I'm pretty sure the stock balancer works fine too, though it's heavy. But it has to be heavy to do its job. You should start a thread asking what miata people want. I guarantee you there's a couple other things you could be whipping out that would sell sell sell.
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Old 09-28-2008, 02:00 PM   #13
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Maybe it is, I wasn't thinking about the pressure plate. I would imagine the PP is probably 10 pounds. The dampener is 7 if I remember right. The crankshaft I thought was somewhere around 20. I just weighed a ZETEC crank thats bigger then ours and it was 30 pounds. Its probably more like 27 or so...

Its funny we're low balling and high balling the rotating weight number I'll give you 65pounds thats as high as I'll go.
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Old 09-28-2008, 03:42 PM   #14
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I sent you a PM...
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Old 10-03-2008, 04:53 AM   #15
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Awesome, I would be in for a set.
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Old 10-03-2008, 06:49 AM   #16
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test them, show me gains, and ill buy it.
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Old 10-03-2008, 05:58 PM   #17
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With the full kit of timing parts it should be worth about 2-3 hp in first gear. With the lightweight alternator pulley and under drive water pump pulley added on the whole kit should be worth about 6-7hp. If you have a very high horsepower car these gains will be exaggerated. If you have a 200 W.H.P. car you would see the gains double, if you have a 400 W.H.P. car you would see the gains double again. All these gains are in first gear and those gains really reduce the higher the gear you are in. I wouldn’t expect to see but 2 – 3 hp in the highest powered cars in 5th gear.

It is like any other weight reduction mod. Everyone knows taking weight off helps it is just hard to show the evidence. Why else would people spend hundreds of dollars to lighten the crank?

The lightweight parts will also reduce the load on your brakes so they don't fade and you will slow down faster. I know it is not a huge difference but if you brake and accelerate 40 times an autocross session you will see the difference. Your brakes WILL be cooler after the session you will be able to slow down faster and you will be able to accelerate faster. You should be doing everything you possibly can to reduce rotating weight in autocross it is really a big part of getting over the timing marks the fastest.

I'm working on some tests I can do to show the improvement outside of just calculating it. My manufacturer is going to be booked for a couple weeks, when I get this put together, and have more information about its performance I'll come back and post again with what I have.
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Old 10-03-2008, 08:37 PM   #18
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the easiest proof test i could see is run a stock miata, 1.8 or 1.6 and then run the same one with your cam gears, etc.... with out adjusting the cam timing.that would prove if the weight actually did anything.

Almost anything can look good in theory and on paper. such as Paul in his 300whp miata could beat a 515hp Gallardo. in power to weight ratio's.

I'm all for it if it works, when do you think you would have everything together and ready to sell?

EDIT:http://www.maruhamotors.co.jp/miata/parts/camgear.html

your cam gears weigh 80grams less than ^'s would you even notice 80grams?
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Old 10-03-2008, 09:45 PM   #19
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Those have to be per a gear, look at how thick that aluminum is, those are at least as heavy as stock which is 420 grams a piece. So these would be almost 600 grams less than those gears which about 1.3 lbs. With titanium fasteners you'd be looking at somewhere around 180 grams with my gears. That would be the ultimate, but titanium studs are usually about 10 bucks a piece unless I had some made specifically for this in reasonably large quantity.

I don't think most people could justify a 50% increase in cost over what 30 grams? I'm up for that test, but unfortunately my car is already too far off stock to do it. We'd have to find a guinea pig to see what the real difference is.

My target date is 3-4 weeks because I want time to thoroughly abuse everything in order to make sure its going to hold up for you guys.
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Old 10-03-2008, 10:35 PM   #20
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Im sorry, dont mean to be an *** but I just cant justify 350+ on something so insignificant...
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