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Old 01-21-2009, 08:21 PM   #61
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competitive yes.... good quality... seems so.... do i want them... sure....

The issue so much of us have is that a lot of us are broke and therefore go for the best hp/$.

Look at it this way... what percentage of us here have FM gears and fidanza flywheels? Not too many.
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Old 01-22-2009, 02:00 PM   #62
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I don't see the argument of this being a bad deal. 300$ for a set of FM gears. This is 50$ more and you get nicer looking, lighter gears plus the nice looking lightweight crank gear. Oh and they aren't purple. How much is the findinza wheels? About a buck-20 if i remember right. This seems competitive in price + functionality. Very cool.
Uh huh. If someone had run these for a year, I wouldn't get anything else. I am a bit concerned about how it holds up (though I'd in the end risk it - I would expect less slippage than with metal ones), but really, any timing gears would have to suck my **** before I'd feel better putting the money there than into rods.

Of course, now that I have rods.... :-)

Honestly, the whole kit will be a nice touch. You know what would be a good point to bring up? Why you're not taking that same 4 oz off the OD of the flywheel??? :-)


EDIT: Oh! Didn't see that post where you said you ARE going to test them, on the track. Awesome! That's half the reason not to buy them - the other being, well, they aren't free. Can't do a lot about that one. :-) Post pics when you do it!

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Old 01-22-2009, 02:12 PM   #63
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As for charging a honda for 350, you can't even buy the cheapest standalone for that?
Software is available to tune the stock Honda ECU for FREE!! I love the support the ODB1 Honda stuff has.
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Old 01-22-2009, 02:19 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by AlexandertheOk View Post
I don't see the argument of this being a bad deal. 300$ for a set of FM gears. This is 50$ more and you get nicer looking, lighter gears plus the nice looking lightweight crank gear. Oh and they aren't purple. How much is the findinza wheels? About a buck-20 if i remember right. This seems competitive in price + functionality. Very cool.


It's not a question of it being a bad deal for what it is. It's a question of it being untested.


Otherwise why don't you have a set on order already?
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Old 01-22-2009, 04:19 PM   #65
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Yea definitely, we're going to take care of testing. All my design components use a factor of safety of 3 or more. 3 For this component because its not life threatenting. If its a component that could kill if it fails I'll use 10 or 7.

With a factor of safety of 3 in theory I could of made it 3 times as light and it still would of done its job without problems. The thing is diminishing returns. Who is ever going to notice the difference of 40 grams, and at the cost of reliability.

I am going to send the parts with a set of tests I'd like for him to do on the parts. He's going to run them on an intense dyno session and then remove the parts and evaluate any damage that has occured to them. If there isn't anything to worry about he's going to road race them that weekend and probably re-evaluate. If nothing turns up then, he'll have them on the car permanent.

If there are problems then I can re-evaluate and re-engineer the part. This is to be thought of as prototype testing, not final manufacturing testing. There maybe a couple of iterations here.
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Old 01-22-2009, 04:25 PM   #66
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Yeah, I'm curious how you could test these, other than on the car being used as you describe. Perhaps mount a cam gear to a cam and put the belt on, and then pull till either the belt breaks, or the gear? I dunno. But seeing these parts tested would be nice. Seems to me like if you bumped them the wrong way they could shatter. But I dunno **** about carbon fiber. How's it compare to fiberglass? I'm more familiar with fiberglass.
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Old 01-22-2009, 04:34 PM   #67
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But I dunno **** about carbon fiber. How's it compare to fiberglass? I'm more familiar with fiberglass.


It's great as long as it's setup right, and it doesn't experience any forces outside of it's designed parameters.

Ever watch an F1 suspension catastrophically fail with a minor off road? yea.
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Old 01-22-2009, 05:07 PM   #68
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Now that is interesting - I've had to limp my car along at 3k before on club runs due to over heating if I leave it revved - the motor isn't working that hard, I just rev it for fun and it gets warm, so that would be interesting to know!
I don't feel that it's cavitation. I run waterless pressureless coolant with a boiling point of 375F and mine does that too.
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Old 01-22-2009, 05:10 PM   #69
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Yeah, I'm curious how you could test these, other than on the car being used as you describe. Perhaps mount a cam gear to a cam and put the belt on, and then pull till either the belt breaks, or the gear? I dunno. But seeing these parts tested would be nice. Seems to me like if you bumped them the wrong way they could shatter. But I dunno **** about carbon fiber. How's it compare to fiberglass? I'm more familiar with fiberglass.
I have a bunch of different fatigue tests. I'll make a video.

I'm using omnidirectional 2x2 twill carbon fiber. So the carbon fiber doesn't have any paticular weak direction. As far as carbon fiber vs fiber glass this is going to be between 5-7 times as strong. If you use one layer of carbon fiber you would have to use 5 layers of glass to eqaul it.

Cavitation is the formation of bubbles of low density which create gas in the liquid. When the liquid contracts back into the gasous area this sends shockwaves in the pump, and reduces pumping efficiency dramatically. It doesn't have much to do with the liquid your running unless viscosity and vapor pressure are significantly different.
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Old 01-22-2009, 05:16 PM   #70
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Cavitation is the formation of bubbles of low density which create gas in the liquid. When the liquid contracts back into the gasous area this sends shockwaves in the pump, and reduces pumping efficiency dramatically. It doesn't have much to do with the liquid your running unless viscosity and vapor pressure are significantly different.


I agree, it doesn't matter if it's not water, and isn't under pressure, just that it's a liquid.
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Old 01-22-2009, 05:22 PM   #71
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Cavitation is the formation of bubbles of low density which create gas in the liquid. When the liquid contracts back into the gasous area this sends shockwaves in the pump, and reduces pumping efficiency dramatically. It doesn't have much to do with the liquid your running unless viscosity and vapor pressure are significantly different.
The vapor pressures are significantly different. According to Evans tech info, 50/50 water and EG mix is 360kPa under 15psi of pressure @ 176F. The NPG+ coolant is only 8kPa at the same temp. One of the benefits of this stuff is that it's supposed to solve cavitation problems.

http://www.evanscooling.com/main20.htm
http://www.evanscooling.com/html/npgben1.htm

Last edited by DammitBeavis; 01-22-2009 at 05:27 PM. Reason: corrected number, added links.
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Old 01-22-2009, 05:28 PM   #72
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Well beyond cavitation there is also straight out pump inefficiency. I will agree that is a significant reduction in vapor pressure that would curtail cavitation. I'm sure the NPG coolant is less efficient then water though. Did you notice an improvement when you switched? If you did there must be atleast some cavitation occuring at the upper ranges, I don't think you can find a better liquid with similar operating ranges,viscosity,heat caring capacity, and conductivity.
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Old 01-22-2009, 05:43 PM   #73
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It's strange stuff for sure. Coolant temps went up, but symptoms of overheating disappeared.
On water/EG I could see when the engine started getting hot at an autocross before the stupid factory temp gauge even started moving. The J&S would start flickering and taking away my timing. At an event after switching to NPG-R, I found myself accidentally running with my coolant temps at 120C (maybe higher) when the thermostat decided it wasn't going to open all the way. Astoundingly, the car acted as if nothing was wrong.

On my DSM I frequently run it up to 250F on the hot summer events, and once pegged the coolant temp sensor which stopped reading at 280F while using the NPG+. I start pulling a little timing at 220F because I'm chicken to see how far I can push it, but so far nothing has broken in the 2 years I've been doing that.
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Old 01-22-2009, 07:50 PM   #74
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I'll jump in here, I might be interested in something like this.

Honestly my primary interest is that crank gear and adapter set. If you could machine in some dowel pins of high carbon steel to mate the adapter and cam cog together then you'd have me sold.

For the cam gears, not sure I really like the physical appearance of them. Maybe you've addressed this already, but I'm way too lazy to read this entire thread... How are you planning on keeping index with a carbon fiber hub and billet cog?
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Old 01-23-2009, 02:34 AM   #75
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It's not a question of it being a bad deal for what it is. It's a question of it being untested.


Otherwise why don't you have a set on order already?
Beucase he isn't taking orders yet. (as far as i know)

Actually i am seriously considering selling my FM gear that i haven't used yet and picking this up. Pending positive test results obviously.

On a side note, are you going to be be hanging around sandia or ASR this spring/summer?
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Old 01-23-2009, 02:56 AM   #76
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im sure a lot of guys have spent a lot more then 350 bucks on alot less, especially guys who are in classes that limit your modification. scca limited prep ep class? i don't really know the classes or the rules but we had a guy bring an ep car down to the shop to make some dyno pulls and he had an awful lot of money in that motor for only 150 some odd whp im sure to someone like that the extra couple hp is worth far more then 350 bucks given its within the rules of his class.
i hope it ends up being both a financial success for you and a good cost effective upgrade for the consumers.
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Old 01-23-2009, 12:48 PM   #77
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Beucase he isn't taking orders yet. (as far as i know)

Actually i am seriously considering selling my FM gear that i haven't used yet and picking this up. Pending positive test results obviously.

On a side note, are you going to be be hanging around sandia or ASR this spring/summer?


I may be interested in your FM gears if you get these. Depending on when and how awesome these turn out to be.

I should be around sandia, this year maby not as much as most years. I've got a wedding I need to pay for happening around june, I need to sell my house asap, and then finish prepping the miata for Silverstate. But I should be out there probably once a month or so. If there's a paticular event you're going to hit up out there let me know, maby I can help out or something I live about 10 minutes from the track. I haven't been to ASR in years, maby next year, I'm planning on picking up a trailer and start on a rally car late in the year.
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Old 01-23-2009, 01:00 PM   #78
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I'll jump in here, I might be interested in something like this.

Honestly my primary interest is that crank gear and adapter set. If you could machine in some dowel pins of high carbon steel to mate the adapter and cam cog together then you'd have me sold.

For the cam gears, not sure I really like the physical appearance of them. Maybe you've addressed this already, but I'm way too lazy to read this entire thread... How are you planning on keeping index with a carbon fiber hub and billet cog?
Carbon the way we've manufactured it will be somewhere between 3-4 times stronger then steel, and the stud/nut interface we're using will be able to apply preloads in the 5-7000 pound range so whatever index you set will not slip, or deform out of shape. Carbon also has really good fatigue characteristics. It won't loose its shape over time.

As far as the crank adapter set, there is no way those too parts can move independently under the huge preload the crank bolt puts on them. When this goes together, the keyway should never be under stress. The friction forces should take care of keeping the parts in line.
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Old 01-23-2009, 03:27 PM   #79
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Beucase he isn't taking orders yet. (as far as i know)

Actually i am seriously considering selling my FM gear that i haven't used yet and picking this up. Pending positive test results obviously.

On a side note, are you going to be be hanging around sandia or ASR this spring/summer?
Alex,
I didn't talk to you at a conference on rad hard electronics, did I? I remember getting very drunk with a pair of sandians, and I thought one had a miata...
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Old 01-24-2009, 07:48 PM   #80
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I may be interested in your FM gears if you get these. Depending on when and how awesome these turn out to be.

I should be around sandia, this year maby not as much as most years. I've got a wedding I need to pay for happening around june, I need to sell my house asap, and then finish prepping the miata for Silverstate. But I should be out there probably once a month or so. If there's a paticular event you're going to hit up out there let me know, maby I can help out or something I live about 10 minutes from the track. I haven't been to ASR in years, maby next year, I'm planning on picking up a trailer and start on a rally car late in the year.
Oh congrats on the wedding! I only have one Fm gear but ill let you know if sell it.

Once i get my car running ill chose an event or two and let you know.

Abe- Sorry boss, wasn't me.
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