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DIY Turbo Discussion greddy on a 1.8? homebrew kit?

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Old 10-03-2008, 11:59 PM   #21
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Every little bit helps. They look good.
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Old 10-04-2008, 12:25 AM   #22
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travis. maybe you should put your location in. that way someone may volunteer who is local.....lol
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Old 10-04-2008, 12:26 AM   #23
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Hey your completely in the right for thinking that if your talking about tearing apart the front of your engine just to install lightweight parts.

My take on it is this. If your working towards getting adjustable cam gears in your car anyways then why not. All this stuff is lighter then whats available on the market, and its just a little bit more money to get the two extra bottom parts that are rediculously lighter then stock.

This is a while I'm in there I'm going to put this in, or since I'm getting adjustable gears anyways lets go all the way and drop the weight of the crankshaft with these lightweight pieces. Its not going to make the car amazingly fast, but if you've got a lightweight flywheel already and you liked how that felt this is just that much better throttle response, and a little quicker through the lower gears.
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Old 10-04-2008, 01:16 AM   #24
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01 owner says: sold in sets of one = win
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Old 10-04-2008, 09:21 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TravisR View Post

How about a real picture, not a CAD photo?

Who's cutting the tooth profile? What type of machine will they be cut on? How are you ensuring concentricity (sp?) between the gear and the CF piece?

Looks cool to me and I commend you on developing it as it's different, but I personally wouldn't buy one due to the high $/gain ratio.
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Old 10-04-2008, 10:20 PM   #26
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Well, you know, if it were 4 weeks from now, like I mentioned I was shooting for, I probably would have a picture of one.

I know a decent amount about tolerance. I've designed parts that run concentric with each other at surface speed of a bullet with a separation of about the average width of an amoeba. After I did that I applied a couple of kilonewtons of load on it and ran it up again to show rigidness of the concentric parts. I don't want to release all the details of the design exactly. Buy one you can see in first person

Now as far as who is cutting the teeth on the outside that would be Alex on his 04 Haas 4 axis. I chose him because the other machine shop I usually use for my work is already booked up. I believe the end mill bit size was a 3/32nd solid carbide 4 flute specialty aluminum cutter with increased helix angles for optimum aluminum ejection. I could have written the g-code as I’ve worked in a machine shop as the staff engineer for what ails you. Companies don’t like using g-code from outside sources as crashing a half a million dollar machine is expensive so he wrote that.

I’ve got another company whose making the composites, and they have set manufacturing prints with included resin/fiber ratios, fabric type, and process standards. Alex is also a professional composite worker who worked in building composite parts for the F-22. He is in charge of bonding the aluminum pieces to the carbon parts after he gets them from the composite company. Every single step of the way this product is handled with the upmost attention, and by professionals.

You can always go buy heavy cam gears for the same price.

Last edited by TravisR; 10-05-2008 at 12:48 AM.
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Old 10-04-2008, 11:29 PM   #27
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well i'm pretty interested in getting a set of theses and seeing if anything comes out of em.
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Old 10-05-2008, 03:20 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by disturbedfan121 View Post
the easiest proof test i could see is run a stock miata, 1.8 or 1.6 and then run the same one with your cam gears, etc.... with out adjusting the cam timing.that would prove if the weight actually did anything.
I can probably do that- I've got baseline pulls from when my car was stock, I have no problem with going back to stock cams, etc, to test these.
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Old 10-05-2008, 01:17 PM   #29
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As a guy with a N/A motor, on which every little bit helps I say this is awesome. While a part like this would make it to my list of stuff to "eventually" get to, at that price (which I'm sure is justified, these pieces look very nice) I could get more results by getting things like bigger cams or better headers.
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Old 10-06-2008, 03:43 PM   #30
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Best of luck with your project Travis. Look at the naysayers as providing valuable (and free) advice as to where potential weaknesses might lay, and input on costs and marketing. No matter what the outcome, and even if it is a total failure, you will have gained far more in practical knowledge than the cost in time and materials. There's nothing to be gained from sitting on our hands and I applaud you for putting an idea to work. Good luck.
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Old 10-09-2008, 05:59 AM   #31
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Lets see them G codes I will check over them for you. I don't know anyone can translate what you just explained? But as far for the parts turning out and working the teeth will be more precise than the factory gears.
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Old 10-11-2008, 03:14 AM   #32
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Ok guys finalized prices, all these parts are very expensive to manufacture, I hope it doesn't scare you guys off.

Individual prices

124.8 Cam gear a piece
70.2 Lower main pulley indexer/holder
63.7 Lower Cam gear

Group prices

115.2 *2 or 230.40 for both cam gears

Whole Kit

349.50 for the 2 cam gears, the lower cam gear, and the lower pulley indexer/mounting plate.

My new cam gears will be here in about 2 weeks for testing. So more to come about them then.

These prices include shipping in the U.S.A.
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Old 10-11-2008, 05:43 AM   #33
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i might take a set for my new engine actually...
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Old 11-23-2008, 03:02 PM   #34
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(wow, sorry, I saw only the first few posts before I wrote this, but not going to erase it. Looks nice, prices are right on the border... uhg!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TravisR View Post
Now the total weight of rotating components is probably around 35-40 pounds. SO this is a 5-7% reduction.
I just really love the feeling of a quick response motor, and these are a further step towards that. If nothing else I've got a set for my car, and that definitely makes me happy.
My guess is this is going to be a hard row to hoe here... Even if it Is 5%... Most of the aftermarket flywheels are 9 lbs, not because someone can't make a 7 lb, it's done, and it works, but folks complained about the vibration - so much so that I couldn't find a 7 lb one when I said I didn't care. If people are willing to add two lbs to the flywheel, why bother with those gears.

Actually, them being tighter is the best part I've heard. The cam gears look really nice, though I would agree with pat - cheap is the reason I don't have any. Lightweight, as in, less bolts - sure, if they don't slip. Certainly I don't want something that will have issues with heat, oil, etc, and then it's all cost.

Right now, VVT cams with an agressive grind is what would turn me on. :-P As to saving weight where you are saving it, no, it's not a bad thing, though the cam gears only turn at half speed anyway, though they are large, it's just that weight off the edge of the flywheel or crank throws moves a *LOT* further, should count for more. Stuff like you're selling might as well cost more - because it's only going into $7,000 engines.

As to revving up quick, seriously, play with your tuning settings, buy some light pistons and flywheel. A good set of accel settings will get the motor spun up so quick - after a recent retune I found I couldn't keep the tires planting in a parking lot, just putting around at 1200 rpm in 1st with the clutch out. I wish I could figure out how to get that tune back. :-)

In short, I appreciate the mechanical beauty of this, but I think it's a case where you need to find a problem to solve and go solve it. I'd buy those if I needed the parts, but I don't, and forged pistons and valve train components or rods will all probably do me more real world good.
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Old 11-23-2008, 03:11 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AbeFM View Post
In short, I appreciate the mechanical beauty of this, but I think it's a case where you need to find a problem to solve and go solve it.
Exactly my thought. There are several things the miata community is DYING to have and nobody makes it. Things Travis could make and sell a lot of. Light weight expensive timing gears isn't one of those things. Are they cool? Yeah. Are they pretty? Yeah. Are they the best? Maybe. But in general, most miata people are looking for the cheapest solution to something, not the best. That's why megasquirt is so popular. Not because it's the best ECU on earth, as surely it's not. But when you look at what you get vs. what you pay, it can't be beat right now.

I've asked Travis to start a thread here numerous times polling the forum, asking what everybody would like to see made. No idea why he refrains.
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Old 11-23-2008, 03:25 PM   #36
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hah, I know I know, I've heard it.

I'll make a thread... I've just had alot of products in development. 3 ignition systems, 2 dwell reducer systems, the oil pump gears (which from where I'm standing looks like three different gears instead of one) I've got my lightweight pulleys almost done, which I want to partner with this kit to free up another couple of horsepower. Once that stuff gets cleared (mid-december it looks like) then I'm ready to take on new projects.
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Old 11-24-2008, 04:07 AM   #37
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Yeah - I wouldn't get discouraged, it's awesome stuff. I *like* those gears, too. It's almost tempting but I'm looking at a $/hp thing here.

Also, I need a HP REDUCER for first gear. Who here wants more horsepower in any gear under 3rd, if not 4th? Not that adding weight would be my first choice of methods, but... :-) It'll make marginal difference on the top end, and exasperbate (an aside: I just realized that while I know the "sound" of that word, I have no idea what it actually is, outside of it's meaning) a significant problem of the low gears.

Still, the gears are looking pretty good, and I might actually NEED some of those. :-)
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Old 11-24-2008, 11:04 AM   #38
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I'm not discouraged by it. Some people like it, some don't.

The big thing is, people put a lot of money into crank lightening operations, and if you are going to do that, it might be a much cheaper option to just do this kit. Plus you have to worry about crank weakening, and rebalancing. Taking a couple of pounds off your crankshaft can cost 200-500 dollars, here its only really costing you about a 100 dollars. The reason to get the adjustable cam gears is to have the adjustability. The adjustability is very good, far from center for accuracy and great markers. The lightness and price is a product of a cheap well thought out design.

I don't really think you could get these made from metal in the U.S. for less then I'm getting them made with composite/aluminum hybrid. My assembly shop cuts some great deals. Now if you compare these to Chinese manufacturing cost, there is no way I could compete with that, but are you getting a top grade engineered part? Is that worth it to you? That's the separator of success for these.

All my parts go together to a certain extent. I have several cam designs I’m playing with, and I of course want adjustability. Like everything else, I think I can make it better then the next guy so this is my attempt. I can also get all of my parts made one off cheaper then I can get them from most manufacturers. Its just depending on whether I want to spend the time to design something. I almost am into the mechanical engineering side of cars more than the driving part. There is nothing better than holding one of my parts in my hands after It has been through the design process. Most of the parts I spend 40-80 hours on, some as much as 200-300. From a monetary standpoint none of this makes since, but I don’t play Xbox and I’ve got a girlfriend, so I have to do something with my spare time. Might as well make car parts
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Old 11-24-2008, 02:26 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TravisR View Post
From a monetary standpoint none of this makes since, but I donít play Xbox and Iíve got a girlfriend, so I have to do something with my spare time. Might as well make car parts
You know, there has to be something to this. Clearly if you played more XBOX, you'd be drowning in *****.


One side comment, could you put an "E", "I", or any other marks on the cam gears? without a stock gear and a lot of staring, it would be hard to know how to get them baselined when putting them on. :-)
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Old 01-21-2009, 06:20 AM   #40
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Update:


This part was the first popped from a special mold we made. The inserts are going to be full carbon, and the timing marks are going to be painted(here they are clear.) We could do this because of a different way of laying up the carbon.

We are going to do some more more pulls from a new mold we are going to make on Friday. This will clean up how the index marks look. This is 2x2 twill 6k 7 layers. Stronger then steel by about 2 times. This is autoclave quality. When we put the mold into full press we're talking 4 times the strength of steel or effectively twice autoclave quality. I think it weighs 35 grams?
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