borka

iTrader: (1)

DIYPNP as the name implies is DO IT YOURSELF. only for advanced nut cases. $450
MSPNP is the plug and play assembled product. $799 for MS2 and $1099 for MS3

for $400 you can maybe find a used MS1, its old school, not many features, wont make car idle well with AC and or headlights and cooling fans on etc... but will make the car run well while driving etc... mostly used on race cars, where great idle with all kinds of accessories is not needed.

MS2 is a good choice, although old tech, it works fine, i had it on my last miata. no problems.

MS3 latest and greatest, most features and current tech.

18psi

iTrader: (76)

it amazes me at how pathetically cheap some miata owners are.
no matter how cheap and readily available parts become, they will always be too expensive for some. if they were $50, they'd still be too expensive and people would be talking about the $8 ebay knockoff solution from the 80's that runs like poo.

I'm not attacking OP, just making observations.

Gdbyrd

Hey man, no offense taken. I'm a budget minded person and it has worked for me and made me successful. The time I have spent reading and researching, it is safe to say I am not the only one who feels the same way. I think that ultimately what it comes down to is that I am not a professional driver and my Miata is transportation. Albeit very fun transportation. On a personal note, I am also an avid hunter. I had no problem dropping 3k just on the optic for my hunting rig because I know it will outlive me. I also didn't mind pinching pennies and being able to pay off grad school the week after I graduated (~50k). I believe it relates to what is important to the individual and not how "cheap" someone is.

I do sincerely appreciate the responses. Just because I am asking questions and using the forums to discuss doesn't mean I am not listening. I am exploring my options which I think is rational. If I do go the turbo route I don't think that there is any other way than MS simply because it's the most cost effective standalone and the most supported for this platform.

Schroedinger

90LowNSlo

I picked up a used ms2 in the classifieds for $350 and it came with a few extra goodies. That's the way to go on a budget. I've seen some people pay a bit more and I've seen lucky people pay a good bit less. Hunt the classifieds and wait for a deal..
took me about 4 months to snag one

Morello

To give you some perspective on how advanced OE ECU tuning is these days, it took a professional aftermarket ECU company the better part of a whole race season to get a standalone ECU that cold started and idled reasonably well on an ND engine (MX5 cup). Thankfully, the BP engine is much simpler than the skyactiv wizardry Mazda is running now. I was able to drive mine around the day I plugged my MSLabs MS3 in. Idle and cold starts took a while to dial in, but it never left me stranded.

I agree with the others though - the ECU is the brain of the car. Do it right the first time or don't bother doing it at all.

For your power goals - dead nuts reliable 150whp can be achieved with a VVT swap, flat top intake, racing beat header + catback, cold air intake and a good tune. Any more than that requires expensive internal engine parts, or leave the engine stock and go with a mkturbo. Both require good engine management.

nitrodann

I always say that the ECU is the brains, like Morello has. Installing a bunch of performance mods and then a substandard ecu is like building a badass gaming pc and installing Windows 2000/ You wouldn't do it.

Injectors are next. No name or copy chinese injectors are like building a nice 1970 Charger and buying a 'Holley Style' carb from ebay. Again, you wouldn't do it.

Dann

L3mur

I installed an MSLabs a few years ago. I think the product is definitely worth the money. It comes with a great base tune to get you rolling. They also seem to hold their value really well on the used market if you decide to sell.

I spent about a month fiddling with settings and didn't use the ms again until this year when I finally swapped to NB sensors so I can try using VVT. I get a weird idle every once and a while. Other than that it runs great. I've never been stranded anywhere.

I think tuner studio is like any new software. There are tons of settings and things to click on that can be overwhelming. Reading the manual helped a bunch.

Autotune is the business.

I've never built my own megasquirt, but I would agree with the comments above. There is enough to figure out with a plug in play. Don't set yourself up for failure. The car is supposed to be fun.

mj1176

as a counterpoint to nitrodann's opinion, I went the ~$500 DIYPNP route and built the board myself, and while it was definitely a challenge and a learning process, it was doable. As others have said, dialing in startup is probably the biggest hurdle at first. Open loop idle isn't hard to get going once you understand what the MS is looking at in running mode and how to manually adjust your idle cells based on desired AFR. Closed loop idle is a little harder but Brain has a great guide on getting started with it, search around it shouldnt be too hard to find.

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

$10 said none of them read a manual or actually had a clue to what they were doing.

x_25

Yep. Open loop idle is easy. My car idles beatuifully, if high. AC idle up is cake.

Good cold starts are still eluding me, by I don't winter drive the car and have just not had the time to get it dialed in below 40f...

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

closed loop is easy.

cold starts are easy, you just need to tune for them -- its typically a time time set and forget for the cranking pulsewidth.

Gdbyrd

OK, next question...instead of opening another thread.

The PNP units are very year dependent; like my 1997. If I want a PNP MS3 unit I think I have to go with MSLabs. DIYAutotune only offers a MS2 right now. I'm assuming this has more to do with the configuration of the plugs than anything.

Let's say that I totally destroy my engine next year and I get a hell of a deal on a low mileage NB engine with VVT I want to drop in. What would be involved on the MS side to get that working if I already have a MS in my car? Is it a simple retune? Thanks.

huesmann

iTrader: (1)

Presumably you just need a retune, assuming you go with the MSLabs unit.

afm

iTrader: (3)

Using your car as transportation is actually one of the best reasons to get a nicer ECU, followed closely by having a VVT swap in mind for the future.

aphongt

iTrader: (1)

Honestly if you have time and actually can read a wiring diagram and confident, by all means build it yourself. There are guides out there (brains guide) that simplifies the process.

I purchased a brain built unit because it was simply PnP and didn't feel like the 300 or so I'd save wasn't worth the time and effort spent building it. So really depends how much you value your time. If I'm going to spend a week of my spare time trying to build it, what's the point when I could just be driving it =p

Morello

Email mslabs for a new base tune, follow the VVT swap guide over in the engine section and get on with life. I have a buddy who did this with his car and it was cake. I did the VVT and MS3 at the same time, but the wiring is pretty simple (again, read the swap thread) and mslabs will have a good base tune.

x_25

The ECU matches the wiring harness. So yes, you want a 97 PNP for your 97 wiring harness.

Really it is just the way the connector is wired up inside. Almost all the features and everything else will be the same. If you put a VVT engine in, you will need to pin in an extra wire or find a free wire already connected to a suitable output to run the VVT.

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

there are other 96-97 options... (reads between the lines).

The biggest reason you cant find a PNP unit is because the low demand of 96-97 units; and yes, it's all in the plug wiring.

I build a 1990 MS3x exactly the same as I would a 95 or 97 or 99 or 05 unit.

scottns

iTrader: (1)

DIYAutotune does have MS3Pro PnP units. I have one. It's not listed on the web site yet. I e-mailed to inquire about an ETA since I knew they where working on a 96-97 unit and they said they had 3 ready on a first come first serve basis. I got the 2nd one. Don't know if they have more ready to go but I'd send them an e-mail and ask if you want to go that route.