NA1.6 Stock internals... advice please! - Page 3 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


DIY Turbo Discussion greddy on a 1.8? homebrew kit?

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 08-22-2013, 12:37 PM   #41
I'm a terrible person
iTrader: (19)
 
FRT_Fun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Arizona
Posts: 7,293
Total Cats: 180
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by M.Adamovits View Post
Signature worthy.

1.8 > 1.6.


/thread
Bold statement for someone running noneofit


Last edited by Braineack; 08-23-2013 at 09:50 AM.
FRT_Fun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2013, 12:40 PM   #42
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 322
Total Cats: 23
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FRT_Fun View Post
Bold statement for someone running noneofit
It's in the works..

Maybe.
M.Adamovits is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2013, 12:41 PM   #43
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,821
Total Cats: 1,781
Default

no, your mom; and leaving her competely unsatisfied.
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2013, 12:42 PM   #44
I'm a terrible person
iTrader: (19)
 
FRT_Fun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Arizona
Posts: 7,293
Total Cats: 180
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
no, your mom; and leaving her competely unsatisfied.
You know it's a 10/10 thread when the mom jokes come out.


Last edited by Braineack; 08-23-2013 at 09:51 AM.
FRT_Fun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2013, 12:47 PM   #45
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,821
Total Cats: 1,781
Default

Attached Thumbnails
NA1.6 Stock internals... advice please!-your_mom.png  
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2013, 01:23 PM   #46
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (31)
 
Savington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 14,353
Total Cats: 1,322
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FRT_Fun View Post
I usually consider what you say to be on point, but this a pretty dumb statement.
Fair enough. I didn't intend to indiscriminately insult all 1.6 turbo guys, even though that's what I ended up doing, so for that I do apologize. I still think that turboing a 1.6 is a bad idea, and that's why I was trying to dissuade the OP from doing it.

From a technical standpoint, there aren't a lot of people who won't admit that the 1.6 is worse than the 1.8, and from a financial standpoint, the few hundred extra dollars to get a 1.8 longblock into the car has such a huge, huge impact on the performance and driveability of the end result. If you start down the rabbithole with a 1.6 manifold and downpipe, it's hard to justify backtracking and starting over, which is why I push people who are thinking about turboing a 1.6 pretty hard towards a 1.8 right from the start. There are a lot of people who have turbo 1.6s who wish they had a 1.8, but I've never met a turbo 1.8 guy who's thought for more than two seconds about swapping back to a 1.6.

There are still folks out there who insist the 1.6 is in some way better, and I'll never understand those people.
Savington is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2013, 01:23 PM   #47
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 3,325
Total Cats: 235
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FRT_Fun View Post
But that still doesn't change the fact that some people want to make power with it. And it has nothing to do with being stubborn, ignorant, or any other adjective Sav wants to use to describe it.

So why do they do it then? "Because I want to" would be stubborn. "Because I already have the 1.6" is ignorant if we are talking about building a good turbo setup, as a few hundred for a 1.8 swap is a drop in the bucket next to $5k for a turbo kit.

What does that leave? I am genuinely curious, not trolling.
thenuge26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2013, 01:46 PM   #48
I'm a terrible person
iTrader: (19)
 
FRT_Fun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Arizona
Posts: 7,293
Total Cats: 180
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thenuge26 View Post
So why do they do it then? "Because I want to" would be stubborn. "Because I already have the 1.6" is ignorant if we are talking about building a good turbo setup, as a few hundred for a 1.8 swap is a drop in the bucket next to $5k for a turbo kit.

What does that leave? I am genuinely curious, not trolling.
I can't speak for all 1.6 turbo owners obviously. For me it was a matter of timing and science.

Timing because it just worked out that a lot of parts I wanted to buy already could be packaged with a built 1.6 for a great deal. Most of those parts will easily work with a 1.8 IF I ever decide to upgrade. A lot of power on a 1.6 is still a lot of power.

Science because at the end of the day I'm doing this to learn. And I can learn just as well on a 1.6 as I can on a 1.8. Everything I learn about the MS3x, E85, tuning, etc... can be applied to a 1.8.

Do I plan to switch to a 1.8 some day? Sure. But that day is very far off. If I was starting from stock would I choose a 1.8? Yes. But I'm not.

In the end I'm sure you could apply some stubbornness and ignorance to my decisions, but it doesn't matter. I'm having fun and have no regrets. I've done some pretty dumb things in the past with my Miatas and learned that I really just like wrenching on them and messing around.

One could argue that wasting money on a 1.8 is dumb too. There are so many better platforms out there. We should really be pushing to get make swapping to other engines easier.


Last edited by Braineack; 08-23-2013 at 09:51 AM.
FRT_Fun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2013, 01:54 PM   #49
Senior Member
iTrader: (8)
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Azusa, CA
Posts: 1,376
Total Cats: 80
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thenuge26 View Post
So why do they do it then? "Because I want to" would be stubborn. "Because I already have the 1.6" is ignorant if we are talking about building a good turbo setup, as a few hundred for a 1.8 swap is a drop in the bucket next to $5k for a turbo kit.

What does that leave? I am genuinely curious, not trolling.

For me, It's because I already have a 1.6 with a 40k mile crate motor in it and I beat the **** out of it for the last year or so with absolutely zero mechanical issues. Also, every thing has been upgraded to 1.8 components such as brakes, torsen, flywheel, clutch, etc. The motor had perfect compression and leak down test and I know it can it's healthy to handle some boost. Compared to buying used 1.8 with unknown history that I would not have as much confidence in.

Secondly, I sourced a 1.6 turbo kit for dirt cheap so I pulled the trigger.

Thirdly, My goal for my first turbo miata is to get experience with forced induction. A log mani stock block miata is not my dream car and end goal. But at my age and budget a built 1.8 custom turbo setup that can me huge power is not feasible.


Yes, as almost everyone says, if I could start over I'd buy 1.8. But "live and learn". I think a 1.6 build will give me good experience to learn from and make enough power to keep a very novice driver scared on a track so I'm following through with my build.



EDIT: it looks like me and FRT_Fun are in the same boat.
cyotani is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2013, 01:55 PM   #50
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Signal Hill, CA
Posts: 246
Total Cats: 11
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thenuge26 View Post
So why do they do it then? "Because I want to" would be stubborn. "Because I already have the 1.6" is ignorant if we are talking about building a good turbo setup, as a few hundred for a 1.8 swap is a drop in the bucket next to $5k for a turbo kit.

What does that leave? I am genuinely curious, not trolling.
Because I want a challenge. That surely is a lot better than "Because I want to" or "Because I can". Although this is not my reasoning, I wish it was more poetic than that, it just comes down to me being lazy and not wanting to pull the motor, lol.

Granted that the 1.8 are vastly superior than the 1.6, but not everyone is looking to achieve the same goals. Instead of it being another thread on debating if it's cost effective to do anything to a 1.6 compared to a 1.8.

Just agree to disagree. I mean modifying a 20+ year old car is very idiotic in the grand scheme of things.
.one lane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2013, 01:59 PM   #51
Senior Member
iTrader: (10)
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Oakdale, CA
Posts: 1,353
Total Cats: 65
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FRT_Fun View Post
A lot of power on a 1.6 is still a lot of power.

One could argue that wasting money on a 1.8 is dumb too. There are so many better platforms out there. We should really be pushing to get make swapping to other engines easier.
Couldn't have said it better.

And I'm pretty sure making almost 360 whp out of a 1.6 with a basic LOG manifold, STOCK intake, STOCK throttle body, NO VVT, no "superior" flowing 1.8 head, eBay special turbocharger, or that extra displacement is still a lot of power, and more power than most make with turbo 1.8l.

And there is still more to come.

Also, I am not one claiming the 1.6 is better, never have and never will. Never once have I said it's "more revy" or some crap like that. To be quite honest I think both the 1.6 and the 1.8 are inferior engines with what is available, are they fun to build up and boost and build crazy NA ITB throttle response cars, sure. Is it fun to go whoop *** on people and then explain they just got beat with a whole 96 cubic inches, you bet your *** it is. <- that was my reasoning for it.

Last edited by RyanRaduechel; 08-22-2013 at 02:25 PM.
RyanRaduechel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2013, 02:02 PM   #52
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,821
Total Cats: 1,781
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanRaduechel View Post
And I'm pretty sure making almost 360 whp out of a 1.6 with a basic LOG manifold, STOCK intake, STOCK throttle body, NO VVT, no "superior" flowing 1.8 head, eBay special turbocharger, or that extra displacement is still a lot of power, and more power than most make with turbo 1.8l.
and if someone mimicked your build, exactly, but used a 94 block instead of the 1.6L, it would be vastly superior in every way. There's no arguing that.

anyways, i don't reserve my 1.6L hatred to the motor alone, I extend it to the entire 90-93 model years and everything shitty about them as well.

and don't take this as a personal attack; I drive an inferior 1.6L as well, which also makes better power than a lot of 1.8Ls*.





*when they run wastegate and I run 15psi.
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2013, 02:42 PM   #53
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 3,325
Total Cats: 235
Default

So to count we have 2 "ignorance" ("If I could do it over I'd do a 1.8) and 1 "stubborn" ("I just don't feel like pulling the engine") with Ryan not giving a clear answer.


I understand you all had your 1.6s already, but that is exactly the point Sav was trying to make.

As for swaps, the F20C seems relatively straightforward, but everything else will require significant work because modern cars with better modern engines aren't front-engine-RWD. So we have oil pan/steering rack issues like the K swap, or heavy fab work needed for transmission/diff mounting of a new transmission/diff. Whereas with a 1.8 swap you need motor mounts and brackets. Quite a difference.
thenuge26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2013, 02:44 PM   #54
Elite Member
iTrader: (12)
 
GeneSplicer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 2,006
Total Cats: 147
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
1.6 turbos are for people who didn't know better when they started their build or are too stubborn/lazy to acknowledge/rectify their error. Sorry
Me...

Now putting '94 1.8 with vvt together... slowly - maybe a little quicker if someone would send me an estimate/invoice

FYIW, I put 275rwph/235tq on my internally stock 1.6 before taking out the HG - and that not related to the motor. Do I regret turboing it at the start? - not at all

Last edited by GeneSplicer; 08-22-2013 at 03:02 PM.
GeneSplicer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2013, 02:55 PM   #55
Senior Member
iTrader: (10)
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Oakdale, CA
Posts: 1,353
Total Cats: 65
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
and if someone mimicked your build, exactly, but used a 94 block instead of the 1.6L, it would be vastly superior in every way. There's no arguing that.

anyways, i don't reserve my 1.6L hatred to the motor alone, I extend it to the entire 90-93 model years and everything shitty about them as well.

and don't take this as a personal attack; I drive an inferior 1.6L as well, which also makes better power than a lot of 1.8Ls*.





*when they run wastegate and I run 15psi.
Yeah, that's why I have 1.8 brakes, 6 speed, 1.8 3.90 Torsen

But you are wrong, if someone mimicked my build exactly but with a 1.8 they wouldn't make any more power, they'd be running into the same spark blowout I am... but now if the spark wasn't an issue, then yes they would make more power.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thenuge26 View Post
So to count we have 2 "ignorance" ("If I could do it over I'd do a 1.8) and 1 "stubborn" ("I just don't feel like pulling the engine") with Ryan not giving a clear answer.
My answer is because it's more fun to troll people with smaller displacement engines. That isn't stubborn, lazy, or ignorant. It's just for fun.

I tell people it's just a gay little 1.6 Miata, then I add some cash to the race, then I go take said cash lol

Ask Vlad, I try and race people every time we are tuning lol
RyanRaduechel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2013, 02:58 PM   #56
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Signal Hill, CA
Posts: 246
Total Cats: 11
Default

Lol, I wouldn't have guess being lazy as stubborn. But whatever.
.one lane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2013, 02:58 PM   #57
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,821
Total Cats: 1,781
Default

they'd make plenty of power over you; until spark blow-out happened at an earlier rpm.
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2013, 03:00 PM   #58
Elite Member
iTrader: (13)
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Taos, New mexico
Posts: 5,702
Total Cats: 237
Default

I can hardly believe this debate is even happening in mt.net. It's 2013 folks.
Fireindc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2013, 03:03 PM   #59
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Signal Hill, CA
Posts: 246
Total Cats: 11
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fireindc View Post
I can hardly believe this debate is even happening in mt.net. It's 2013 folks.
Finally, someone with reason.
.one lane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2013, 03:08 PM   #60
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,119
Total Cats: 33
Default

yes... Its 2013...... im FINALLY prepping for a 1.8 swap... I dont doubt the superiority of the 1.8... but IF... and thats a BIG if.. the 1.8 doesnt perform better than my 1.6, Im going to come back to this thread, and poop EVERYWHERE... ALLOFIT!!!



Actually.... Ill come back and poop everywhere regardless...
Attached Thumbnails
NA1.6 Stock internals... advice please!-poop.jpg  
supercooper is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Project Gemini - Turbo Civic on the Cheap Full_Tilt_Boogie Build Threads 57 07-19-2017 05:11 PM
WTB MP62 (Hotside) (NB2) Rick02R WTB 3 01-03-2016 08:18 PM
Expected intake temps on the track? tazswing Race Prep 20 10-03-2015 12:04 PM
Back to Stock Part Out!! Turbo Parts, MS2 Enhanced 01-05, Suspension, and MOAR! StratoBlue1109 Miata parts for sale/trade 16 10-02-2015 10:39 AM
Going back to stock. Need some 1.6 parts. Trent WTB 2 10-01-2015 01:15 PM


Tags
whine and sleaze

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:40 PM.