evank

iTrader: (2)

In other news, Mr. McDouche kindly explained post #18 to me. So instead of my recently updated cranking/run dwell settings of 5.0 and 4.0, I'm going to try 6.0 and 4.5 .... right now!

stinkonamonkey

Here is a screen shot of how I modified my AEM EMS Cal for the toyota COP's. I used the formula from the AEM forum as follows:

Dwell time = (0.02 * Dwell Factor * Dwell Vs. RPM * Dwell Vs. Batt Voltage)/1000

I used Excell to figure out how to modify the Dwell Vs. Batt table after using the Coil Wizard to select the toyota 04 up prius.

I'd be interested to see how you guys with AEM's modified your tables to set Dwell. Seems like you could change any one of the 3 variables to achieve the same goal. I also just made an assumption that the curve would follow smoothly below 9 volts.

I have not started the car yet, so I cannot claim this worked yet.

JasonC SBB

So that all the dwell measurments I made are in the same place, here are the Inifniti COP dwell curves.

Marking says
Hanshin
MCP-1350

It has a 3 wire connector
The COP has labels "IB G +" which refers to input, ground, 12V.

The input requires at least 2.5V and 3.6 mA to that it will current limit at at least 6A. More drive results in higher current limit but it's diminishing returns.
For example it will current limit at 7A if driven to 3.2V / 23 mA.

The input should not be driven without a current limiting resistor. From a 5V drive 220 to 680 ohms will work. From a 12V drive, 1k to 1.5k will work.

Note that some ECU outputs will have a current limited drive and this may need to be considered.

To trigger a spark the input needs to go below 0.7V minimum. A high impedance low state is OK.

The primary inductance is 3.1 mH
The resonant freq appears to be 31 kHz

Here are the dwell numbers for 5.5A peak current (94 mJ primary energy)

8 V 2.5 ms
10V 1.75 ms
12V 1.43 ms
14V 1.2 ms
16V 1.06 ms

At 5.5A of primary current and using a 1 kV zener on the output, secondary energy is ~50 mJ.
Peak secondary current is 55 mA and falls to zero in 2 ms.

With an open secondary peak secondary voltage is 35 kV at 5.5A primary current.
Spark delay is 12 us signal delay, + 35 us output voltage rise time.
Rise time to 20 kV is 13 us.

JasonC SBB

If someone can paste the coil driver schematics of the MS I can tell you if the Infiniti coils are compatible.

evank

iTrader: (2)

I didn't know compatibility is an issue. Are you saying that if they're not compatible, I can work around that somehow ... or that I'd be S.O.L. and wasted my money on the coils and hardware? :(

JasonC SBB

Worst case you mod the MS circuit to make it work. Schematics, anyone?

evank

iTrader: (2)

Schematics are here: MegaManual Index ... I'm not sure which is the correct one. (DIY built mine - v. 3.5.7)

evank

iTrader: (2)

Update - I called DIY, they said the coil driver is on drawing 7 (of 8) at V3.57 Main Board

JasonC SBB

Should be fine.
So should Joe's modded circuit here:
https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/t33964/

evank

iTrader: (2)

Great! Those "three little words" are the last bit of data I need to move forward with the COPS.

Big public "w00t!" to JasconC.

JasonC SBB

Thanks. What did you find with using the '01 COP shafts?

evank

iTrader: (2)

Not sure what you mean. The Infiniti coils stick up about 1/2-inch too far, but as ya'll said, that is not the end of the world. I'll see about putting some kind of spacer / o-ring combination around the exposed part for extra protection against debris and moisture.

JasonC SBB

Just to add to the above in one location for posterity's sake, here are test results of the Infiniti coils provided by Evank.
They had long skinny shafts and a larger body than the Toyota COPs, and are a bit clumsy fit in the 99 cam cover, seemingly hopeless for the 01 cam cover. Their markings were "Hanshin MCP1350", no Nissan logo or part number
Brief disucssion of fitment was here
https://www.miataturbo.net/megasquirt-18/01-cops-ms-32827/

In my own language lol

Input is proportional (e.g. not comparator’ed / schmitt’ed)

Current limit can be 6-8A depending on drive

e.g.
5A if 2.2V @ 1.7 mA
6A if 2.5V @ 3.6 mA (not recommended to go below this drive)
7A if 3.2V @ 23 mA
7.7A if 4.2V @ 53 mA

drive requriements, assume 5 mA @ 2.5V (output impedance with 5V drive <500 ohms)

Off drive minimum is ~0.8V (drive output V must go below this)

Delay time, trigger fall to start of steep rise in HV – 12 us

With large currents, rise time of HV is 9us

Resonant frequency is 31 kHz


6A Lab supply with 10mF bypass testing

Cur lim = 6.5A
Initial inductance is 3.1 mH
Current rise is very straight.

Dwell times, for 5.5A primary peak current: (94 mJ input energy)

8 V 2.8 mS
10 V 1.78 mS
12 V 1.44 mS
14 V 1.17mS

secondary waveform testing
With 1 kV TVS load

5.5A pri ~55 mA peak sec current, 2 mS ramp down time, ~55 mJ.

(calc est 100:1 turns ratio)

2A primary peak current yields 13 kV pk, unloaded
3A 20 kV
4A 25 kV
5.2A 32 kV @ 35 uS rise time

poobs

iTrader: (1)

Speaking of dwelbs Did you guys fry your COPS yet ?

I was running mine for a while on the stock ECU without a dwell reducer.

Recently I went back to using the MS and while switching MSQs on my the motor immediately started missing.

After switching to the OEM coils back again everything was fine then I tried the COPs again and two are not firing

The wiring and connections are fine far as I can tell

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

Are you sure it wasn't your MS setup incorrectly causing them to fry?

poobs

iTrader: (1)

Very likely that I switched to an MSQ that had the dwell set to 5 instead of 3.5

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

that wouldn't kill it. (it should be 2.5ms anyways).

I'm thinking more along the lines of the spark output set to inverted instead of normal or something.

JasonC SBB

I say that can kill em, if run waste-spark, at sustained high RPM, high temp operation.

poobs

iTrader: (1)

Maybe all the MSQ switching corrupted the file and told the MS to make the coils do something obscene.

In any case - what is a good place/price for toyota denso 90080-19015 ?

Savington

iTrader: (31)

+1. I don't have the .cal files handy but I blew a few coils early last year after switching to the AEM - I had a 190% modifier on the dwell page that I glossed over, which brought the actual dwell up to the ~6ms range. I am still on wasted spark. I popped one coil at MRLS, another right after that, and finally figured the problem out.

Having said that, at least two of the coils in my car lived through that and appear to be just fine.