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Old 01-16-2014, 02:11 PM   #101
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i also dont understand phsyics and thermal dynamics.
Now you are getting somewhere...
How many solar water heater systems have you come across where water flows in the collector tubes up and down by thermal siphon?
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Old 01-16-2014, 02:21 PM   #102
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I wouldn't use such a hippie device. natural gas all the way. heat source on the bottom, flowing up through the tank.

i tired to install one of those on-demand water heaters, but it wouldn't work because the coils the water flowed through snaked up and down and the water couldn't flow through it.


I really wish the FM way would work, if only one could do something about all the rise/falls in the line...but there's no way. it's absolutely impossible to route a flexible hose that you have full control over how it's routed.
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Old 01-16-2014, 02:37 PM   #103
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Thats what I did. After some spirited driving and shutting her down hot, I might hear some blubb blubb from the heater core. My 2560 is 12 years old and the turbine blades are eroded to near paper thin at the tips, but the oil drain port looks new/clean.
Do you have pictures of the setup, and was -10AN big enough? I was worried about bottle necking, but didn't see any real downfall to running the coolant this way. It reduces extra plumbing, just need to figure out the return to the mixing manifold.
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Old 01-16-2014, 02:37 PM   #104
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i tired to install one of those on-demand water heaters, but it wouldn't work because the coils the water flowed through snaked up and down and the water couldn't flow through it.


OMG water goes constant uphill from left to right...

But enough of our personal battle, it is not going anywhere.

Fact is that the FM/Begi routing is not the ideal way. You can make it better by routing the lines better than they recommend. But still the best way of doing this is:

1. Take cool water under the turbo
2. Return hot water higher than the turbo
3. Coolant flows all the time through the turbo upwards

I'm only interested about how we can do the upper. You all seem like smart guys, any input?
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Old 01-16-2014, 02:45 PM   #105
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by on-demand i meant tankless, but you missed the pointless joke anyways.

so use the lower block port for the inlet, use the water neck for the upper, don't plumb the lines like a retard. it's not that hard...maybe for you, i dunno.

maybe add a second heat exchanger after the heater core for ***** and giggles?
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Old 01-16-2014, 02:51 PM   #106
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by on-demand i meant tankless, but you missed the pointless joke anyways.

so use the lower block port for the inlet, use the water neck for the upper, don't plumb the lines like a retard. it's not that hard...maybe for you, i dunno.

maybe add a second heat exchanger after the heater core for ***** and giggles?
I agree using the block port for the inlet.

But for the return, I don't have the water neck because reroute... Oil cooler/TB line is also high pressure, it starts before thermostat?
Maybe tapping to heater return way up the firewall?
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Old 01-16-2014, 03:05 PM   #107
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heater return is pre thermostat, no? your only option is the upper hose (there's no higher point than this.
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Old 01-16-2014, 03:06 PM   #108
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heater return is pre thermostat, no? your only option is the upper hose (there's no higher point than this.
Well heater return goes straight to mixing manifold? Low pressure?
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Old 01-16-2014, 03:10 PM   #109
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yeah i suppose that would work, but it wouldn't work well for your spihoning as those are both the coolest areas to tap from.

plus the flow couldn't reverse through the heater core, you've already stated that's impossible (since the hotter points of the two would be the heater core point).
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Old 01-16-2014, 03:24 PM   #110
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yeah i suppose that would work, but it wouldn't work well for your spihoning as those are both the coolest areas to tap from.

plus the flow couldn't reverse through the heater core, you've already stated that's impossible (since the hotter points of the two would be the heater core point).
What if...

Let's say after shutdown the turbo is the hottest point of the system. That way the less hot water rises through it from our block port. It then warms up in the turbo and continues up to the heater core return pipe. There it is tapped so that the flow is directed towards the mixing manifold. The heater core return pipe works like a mini radiator. Hot water in the top and cold water at the bottom (the mixing manifold), cold water cools the hot water -> it gets more heavy -> flows downwards.

I just noticed that this is almost 100% Mazda GTX setup. The only difference is that the return in GTX is tapped a bit more down on the pipe, maybe because the turbo is also lower.

This would be much easier with a bottom mount manifold...
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Old 01-16-2014, 04:11 PM   #111
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bro that's way too much thinking for something that doesn't matter.

After that post I actually checked to make sure your IP wasn't from South FL.
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Old 01-16-2014, 04:15 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
bro that's way too much thinking for something that doesn't matter.

After that post I actually checked to make sure your IP wasn't from South FL.
Is that where hyper's from? Why is it always Florida?
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Old 01-16-2014, 04:50 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by psyber_0ptix View Post
Do you have pictures of the setup, and was -10AN big enough? I was worried about bottle necking, but didn't see any real downfall to running the coolant this way. It reduces extra plumbing, just need to figure out the return to the mixing manifold.
This is a good a thread as any to hijack.

You'd have to page thru all the pictures on my website to see if I do, but here's some.

10AN would be overkill.

Back when I ran the turbo the way FM does it/the way is 'wrong' according to the OP, I ran a .250 dia restricter (maybe less) in my heater core line. This was circa 2003 and I had cooling issues with the factory radiator (ended up being a clogged radiator). I put the restricter in there to try to force more water thru the radiator. Anyway, when I put the turbos in the heater core line I built simple adapters to go from the 5/8? ID heater hose to the 5/16? banjo bolt size.













Attached Thumbnails
Your turbo coolant lines are all f*cked up?-coolant1.jpg   Your turbo coolant lines are all f*cked up?-ypipe1.jpg   Your turbo coolant lines are all f*cked up?-ypipe2.jpg   Your turbo coolant lines are all f*cked up?-acpshighmount8.jpg   Your turbo coolant lines are all f*cked up?-acpst2build5.jpg  

Your turbo coolant lines are all f*cked up?-begireplver217.jpg   Your turbo coolant lines are all f*cked up?-begireplver25.jpg  
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Old 01-16-2014, 05:25 PM   #114
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whoaaaa my eyes exploded!

I thought -10AN was equivalent to 5/8" O.D. tube

Sorry for the highjack, I guess I need to research more
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Old 01-16-2014, 09:49 PM   #115
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I love the twin turbo but unless u're blocking one at low rpm whats the point?
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Old 01-16-2014, 11:32 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by triple88a View Post
I love the twin turbo but unless u're blocking one at low rpm whats the point?
To be more awesome than you.
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Old 01-16-2014, 11:55 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by sixshooter View Post
To be more awesome than you.
Eh, i just see more failure points.
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Old 01-17-2014, 08:33 AM   #118
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Originally Posted by triple88a View Post
I love the twin turbo but unless u're blocking one at low rpm whats the point?
The point is that TurboTim enjoys experimenting. He also made nearly 300hp on that setup I believe.
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Old 01-17-2014, 09:00 AM   #119
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292 I believe with the larger TTs. that's the most my '94 1.8 made, more laggy than the 2560 but they were just getting started at that level IMHO.

-10AN would match the 5/8 of the factory heater core hose, but what I am saying is that you don't need to have it be 5/8. Even with a tiny restricter in the hose and/or running a smaller hose thru a turbo or two post heater core, I had no change in heat in the winter.

Some may whine about the poor water pump forcing water thru a tiny hole before the thermostat opens, but I never beat on my stuff before it's up to temp anyway.
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Old 01-17-2014, 09:08 AM   #120
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Originally Posted by TurboTim View Post
Some may whine about the poor water pump forcing water thru a tiny hole before the thermostat opens, but I never beat on my stuff before it's up to temp anyway.
I heard the reason you pulled the twin setup off was that your turbos backcooled and coked to death.
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