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Old 10-11-2008, 12:14 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by patsmx5 View Post
Ha, you come here and wanna tell us MS sucks. That's like coming here and saying dri fting is the only real auto sport. Ok. Prove it. Show us WHY your AEM is making more power. Don't tell us "because I said so neh neh neh". You think you're right then prove it. Support your claim with reason. Not BS. And do so in a professional manner. If you can.

And yeah if you're 3/4 degree from knock I DAMN sure don't want your map. That's way too close to run on a street motor. Get a little oil in the combustion chambers and you'll be knocking. 1/2 octane lower fuel and you'll knock. etc. Why did you tuner setup spark so aggressively for a street car?
I'm not telling you MS sucks, I'm showing it. I never once said, "MS sucks." I'll let everyone figure that out for themselves. I was once on that same MS bandwagon, and I have compared similar setups with MS to mine with AEM, and, well, I have posted the numbers, so I'll let you figure out which is better.

Duh, knock sensor. Plus we set it 3/4deg off knock after heatsoaking the IC, and getting the turbo really hot. So it's set to run 3/4deg from knock in the worst case scenario, which makes it perfectly safe for a street tune. Don't you feel safe doing that in the MS? Is it not a capable enough ECU for you to trust it?

...and you wonder why I'm not interested in sharing what we have done beyond the dyno #s. "Why would you do that?"...cause it's an AEM, it's completely capable of doing it without worries.

We wouldn't give out my tune, just the base tune to run with AFM removed.

As far as trying to sell an AEM.....on this site? The home of the DIYers? Never. I was hoping to open a few eyes, but never expected anyone to actually pony up $$$ to do something, when we all know it's about how cheap you can do it on this site.
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Old 10-11-2008, 12:25 PM   #42
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With nearly 2 years of use and 440 posts I'd think you would know the way things work here. I'd say you were a contributing member... but it appears not. It would rather seem you're biting the hand that's fed you. Now you're butt hurt when you know the attitude of this place will feed on you if you're **** isnt in order.

Good luck with your build. Oh yeah, sorry nobody believes you. It's a shame our collected reasoning cant match up to your 14yr tuner who isnt telling you the tune he has on your car.
I try to contribute when and where I can.

I know the tune I have on my car, it's not like I drop it off and then come back to pick it up when he's done. I'm the one who puts it on the dyno, and does the street pulls.
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Old 10-11-2008, 01:06 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by ray_sir_6 View Post
I'm not telling you MS sucks, I'm showing it. I never once said, "MS sucks." I'll let everyone figure that out for themselves. I was once on that same MS bandwagon, and I have compared similar setups with MS to mine with AEM, and, well, I have posted the numbers, so I'll let you figure out which is better.

Duh, knock sensor. Plus we set it 3/4deg off knock after heatsoaking the IC, and getting the turbo really hot. So it's set to run 3/4deg from knock in the worst case scenario, which makes it perfectly safe for a street tune. Don't you feel safe doing that in the MS? Is it not a capable enough ECU for you to trust it?

...and you wonder why I'm not interested in sharing what we have done beyond the dyno #s. "Why would you do that?"...cause it's an AEM, it's completely capable of doing it without worries.

We wouldn't give out my tune, just the base tune to run with AFM removed.

As far as trying to sell an AEM.....on this site? The home of the DIYers? Never. I was hoping to open a few eyes, but never expected anyone to actually pony up $$$ to do something, when we all know it's about how cheap you can do it on this site.
What the **** ever. You said:

Quote:
running crap like MS
Semantics FTL. Nobody wants to hear this ****. What you said and what you meant. Whatever.

You haven't showed us AEM is better. You posted a dyno chart with no RPM scales and no torque curve for us to "guess" what the RPMs are. Ok. Anything else? I have spark control to 3/32 of a degree accuracy right now with ms MS. And I have Knocksense to pull however much timing I specify when it hears knock. Completely adjustable. Fuel control to three decimals of a second firing low ohm 550's. It's good enough. If you think AEM is better in some way, and enough to make measurable HP gains over MS, prove it. "It is cause I say it is" doesn't mean much.

And you sell AEMs? Oh.
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Old 10-11-2008, 01:20 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by ray_sir_6 View Post
I'm not telling you MS sucks, I'm showing it.
You're showing us the MS sucks by making 225hp and not tuning your own car?

You got me there, assclown.
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Old 10-11-2008, 02:00 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by patsmx5 View Post
You haven't showed us AEM is better. You posted a dyno chart with no RPM scales and no torque curve for us to "guess" what the RPMs are. Ok. Anything else? I have spark control to 3/32 of a degree accuracy right now with ms MS. And I have Knocksense to pull however much timing I specify when it hears knock. Completely adjustable. Fuel control to three decimals of a second firing low ohm 550's. It's good enough. If you think AEM is better in some way, and enough to make measurable HP gains over MS, prove it. "It is cause I say it is" doesn't mean much.

And you sell AEMs? Oh.
Show me ANY MS running the same boost levels making anywhere near the same power. You can't, and you know it. That IS the proof. I keep thinking, "water, horse" everytime I have to post. Go compare power levels from my tiny Greddy to the T3 Super 60 that is up, or the GT2871. The T3 makes 6whp MORE and 6psi MORE with a BIGGER TURBO and MS. Hell, lets add the 10% they said they lost from the dyno eddy brake...232+10% = 255.2whp. Wait, is my math right? 236 * 1.1? Or maybe 236 * .1 = 23.6...23.2 + 232 = 255.2. So now that that's not gonna be a debate, it makes 32.2whp more (I made 223whp, 255.2 - 223 = 32.2) with 6psi more on a higher flowing turbo. Either MS is crap, or your tuning is...so which is it? I saw a 38whp jump with a 4psi increase, and we all know the Greddy is a small turbo, even when compared to the GT28, and T3. So what part of those numbers don't PROVE the benefits of AEM?

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Old 10-11-2008, 02:03 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by jwarriner View Post
You're showing us the MS sucks by making 225hp and not tuning your own car?

You got me there, assclown.
Oh no, I don't tune my own car. Go alert the police or something. I'm sorry I have someone who can do it for me, and do it well. How much do you pay for your tune? If it's even $0.01, it's more than I paid.

Yes, I do got you there, assclown.
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Old 10-11-2008, 02:09 PM   #47
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You posted a dyno chart with no RPM scales and no torque curve for us to "guess" what the RPMs are.
And I said why I did that...but since you HAVE TO SEE THEM...

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Are you still screaming "conspiracy theory" over why I didn't post it with RPM and torque displayed? Really shows alot, huh? Probably think I was right for posting the one that had a complete graph now, huh?
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Old 10-11-2008, 02:48 PM   #48
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This a lot of bitchin' over dyno sheets which everybody admits vary drastically. The only real way to prove anything would be to swap ecus on the same car and repeat a dyno run with everything else the same. I don't see that happening. But, having a similar MS car run at the same dyno with Ray might reveal something.

Yeah, Ray has what appear to be high numbers for his setup, BUT his setup is different and he's not running away from his story. Oh, and grow up MS babies... run a Link ecu if you want to get kicked around.
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Old 10-11-2008, 02:55 PM   #49
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(assuming your running 10 PSI boost, correct me if I'm wrong)

So, your making 191 wheel torque. And your running 1 bar atmospheric pressure + 10/14.7 bar boost = 1+.68= 1.68 bar.

(211whp) / ((1.6L)(1.68bar)) = 71.06 wheel torque per liter. A VERY impressive number.

Props to you.

Does that mean MS sucks? No. It does means you're making damn good power per liter though. I'd say it's more in the tune than the ECU used to make the tune. Most here setup their cars on the conservative side for reliability and peace of mind. When I say conservative, I'm referring to the spark tables. Hence why I asked to see yours. Most here never tune their spark tables on a dyno. They grab a "safe" one and run it.

That said, there are MS powered cars that make good power too.

I've had to make my own spark table because of the head work I did. Mine is nothing like anyone else's that's been posted. I was merely curious if you are not running something similar to mine. Maybe I could get a yes or no? Here's what I'm running. (note I'm not boosted so I have NOT tuned any boosted cells in this map. Boosted cells are stupidly retarded I know. I'm curious if 100kPa and below tables are similar. Also I've changed this some. Now lowest value in my table is 17*)

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Old 10-11-2008, 02:57 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by ray_sir_6 View Post
How much do you pay for your tune?
0.

I especially don't pay someone who misdiagnoses fuel pump issues.
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Old 10-11-2008, 03:00 PM   #51
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I have MS with my greddy and once I get my clutch in, Ill run 10 psi and go to the dyno and tune it myself.. with less than a year exp.
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Old 10-11-2008, 03:01 PM   #52
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Will do. I have to do HIN tonight, so probably not be able to compare them today, maybe Sunday or Monday for sure. I'll not against comparing, as we both might be able to improve our tunes, but I'm not willing to give out the tuning that I have been fortunate to get for no cost. I just don't think that would be fair to him.
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Old 10-11-2008, 03:07 PM   #53
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0.

I especially don't pay someone who misdiagnoses fuel pump issues.
I wish everyone was so good they could diagnose a fuel issue over the internet with very little details.

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Old 10-11-2008, 03:08 PM   #54
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I have MS with my greddy and once I get my clutch in, Ill run 10 psi and go to the dyno and tune it myself.. with less than a year exp.
Good for you. Post up your numbers.
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Old 10-11-2008, 03:14 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by ray_sir_6 View Post
Will do. I have to do HIN tonight, so probably not be able to compare them today, maybe Sunday or Monday for sure. I'll not against comparing, as we both might be able to improve our tunes, but I'm not willing to give out the tuning that I have been fortunate to get for no cost. I just don't think that would be fair to him.
Exactly. We both might benefit, and so may others. That's the idea. If you are concerned about what your tuner thinks about you sharing maps, that's respectable. But could you ask him if he minds? Putting his name out is only going to get him more business. Nothing wrong with that.

Granted I don't have a 1.6L not do I have a stock combustion chamber, so your numbers wouldn't do me too much good. But it would certainly help others who have stock 1.6L heads. I'm mainly curious what the total advance you run is at peak torque and peak power. I'm running about 28* at peak torque and 34* at peak power all at 100kPa. If I had reasonable AIT's (like hurry up and plumb in my IC I installed and ditch my hot air intake) I could dial in another degree or two safely.
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Old 10-11-2008, 04:31 PM   #56
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I will believe you when I see your car on a dyno with another members car.

Until then, I don't completely write it off- but its hard to take seriously. We have all seen wack dyno plots from FM and Fuji racing etc.
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Old 10-11-2008, 05:42 PM   #57
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I'm in DFW, but I'm having to save to get it tuned. I'm street tunning right now.

It would be cool if everyone would spend the cost of a beer, and donate $2 to the kick the AEM *** fund. LOL

I would drive down to Begi on my day off, and let them tune it.

He has been talking smack about "tuning AFR's" that Corkey said was optimal.

Stephanie do I hear a discounted group cause coming on? LOL
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Old 10-12-2008, 04:27 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by fireindc View Post
i will believe you when i see your car on a dyno with another members car.

Until then, i don't completely write it off- but its hard to take seriously. We have all seen wack dyno plots from fm and fuji racing etc.
+1
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Old 10-12-2008, 11:14 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by Splitime View Post
Last I checked, Greddy only made a 1.6L kit.
Theres a few 1.8 -> 1.6Greddy adaptations ;p
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Old 10-13-2008, 04:20 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Fireindc View Post
I will believe you when I see your car on a dyno with another members car.

Until then, I don't completely write it off- but its hard to take seriously. We have all seen wack dyno plots from FM and Fuji racing etc.

+2

Wasn't there going to be a race? I'd rather see direct results between your car and a few MS greddy cars at the drag strip on the same day. But I know that's not going to happen. It's way easier to print dyno sheets.

Interesting that your tuner tunes the spark maps for knock and not power.
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