NA8 BEGi S4 2860r @ 14psi (245whp/217tq) - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 10-26-2014, 05:51 PM   #1
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Default NA8 BEGi S4 2860r @ 14psi (245whp/217tq)

Tuned a car for a friend today, he uses this car for drifting...don't mind the heavy wheels. Few details from his build:

Fully built 1.8 (BP05), the motor is a clone of Jeff Abbott's build and done by the same engine builder. The turbo system is a BEGi S4 with a 2860r being fed into a 3" exhaust from the down pipe back. The head is not ported and was just refreshed from what I understand.

Prior to his 3" exhaust, made by ThePass, he had a 2.5" crush bent which really neutered the car. With the 3" exhaust, this turbo had to have the wastegate ported to keep the boost under control. Even on the dyno it still creeped to 16psi after being ported. Not a fan of this turbo to be honest.

The car:


The dyno plot:


The AFR on this dyno always reads a tad lead, AFR was ~11.2 once in peak boost. The owner did not want me to lean it out up top and wanted to keep the power level where it was.
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NA8 BEGi S4 2860r @ 14psi (245whp/217tq)-15449994560_bfc3533c45_b.jpg   NA8 BEGi S4 2860r @ 14psi (245whp/217tq)-15449454238_c86dd7ff29_b.jpg  
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Old 10-27-2014, 03:13 PM   #2
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I feel like that is a bit low power wise for the setup he has and the amount of boost he is running. Is there any reason why you guys did not turn up the boost if he has a built motor? With a 2860 you should just be getting into the efficiency range and a few more PSI should start making a good bit more power.
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Old 10-27-2014, 03:16 PM   #3
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Timing map? Specs on the engine?

I agree, it should be making a bit more power than it is... Hell, i made more on 12lbs with a 2560.
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Old 10-27-2014, 03:31 PM   #4
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isn't the 2860 the same as the 2560? unless he's running the RS or disco potato
seems to spool a bit late too, is it on wg only or does it have mbc/ebc?
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Old 10-27-2014, 04:29 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shuiend View Post
I feel like that is a bit low power wise for the setup he has and the amount of boost he is running. Is there any reason why you guys did not turn up the boost if he has a built motor? With a 2860 you should just be getting into the efficiency range and a few more PSI should start making a good bit more power.
The main reason we stopped here is the car still has a 5 speed in it. He had a 6 speed but really disliked the gearing, that transmission ended up in my car.

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Timing map? Specs on the engine?

I agree, it should be making a bit more power than it is... Hell, i made more on 12lbs with a 2560.
This run was done at the very end of the tuning session, everything was pretty damn hot and the car only cooled off about 10-15 minutes. The engine has Mahle Pistons and Eagle rods according to my friend otherwise the head was refreshed only, with no porting. I'll post a log and the map when I get home, the timing was left pretty conservative ~12 degrees up top if I recall.

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Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
isn't the 2860 the same as the 2560? unless he's running the RS or disco potato
seems to spool a bit late too, is it on wg only or does it have mbc/ebc?
It may be the RS, we left it on waste-gate only. According to Bell's website it looks like the turbo is the standard 2860r.

Last edited by Lincoln Logs; 10-28-2014 at 01:50 AM.
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Old 10-30-2014, 07:18 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Rokomis View Post
This run was done at the very end of the tuning session, everything was pretty damn hot and the car only cooled off about 10-15 minutes. The engine has Mahle Pistons and Eagle rods according to my friend otherwise the head was refreshed only, with no porting. I'll post a log and the map when I get home, the timing was left pretty conservative ~12 degrees up top if I recall.

I don't buy the "engine didn't get time to cool down". I've done 4 back to back no cool down runs on a dyno and my numbers hardly changed.
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Old 10-30-2014, 08:18 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Erat View Post
I don't buy the "engine didn't get time to cool down". I've done 4 back to back no cool down runs on a dyno and my numbers hardly changed.
After an hour and a half of tuning the best run was 230whp before I let it cool off for 10-15 minutes. Every car I've taken to this dyno has shown me the same result after a tuning session, YMMV. I try to tune cars in Southern California to be able to survive the desert heat and tune for spark last so if it's heat soaked and not detonating it'll survive in the desert in the middle of summer.
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Old 10-30-2014, 08:22 PM   #8
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I mean, if your IC and the rest of the cooling system is doing it's job then you shouldn't need a "cool down".

You should just be able to make back to back pulls without variation in HP.

I have no intentions of track racing my car, but i sort of built it as if it were going to be tracked. Thinking that a track car sees only WOT or braking for multiple laps, they don't have time to "cool down" and are built accordingly. Unless you're building a drag racing car i don't see the issue.
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Old 10-31-2014, 12:59 AM   #9
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I can't speak for op, but the issue is often poor airflow on the dyno, leading to heat soak. most places have 1 dinky fan, which doesn't even come close to simulating real airflow
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Old 10-31-2014, 01:13 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
I can't speak for op, but the issue is often poor airflow on the dyno, leading to heat soak. most places have 1 dinky fan, which doesn't even come close to simulating real airflow
+1 to this, 4 pulls back to back shouldn't cause it to heat soak enough to show a large change in power. Run a car for over an hour doing tuning for MBT and trying to simulate track conditions in the heat, you're going to see the air temps spike and your water temps creep up eventually.

Last edited by Lincoln Logs; 10-31-2014 at 01:23 AM.
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Old 11-09-2014, 12:56 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Rokomis View Post
The main reason we stopped here is the car still has a 5 speed in it. He had a the timing was left pretty conservative ~12 degrees up top if I recall.
.
That would be it, I think I run close to 20 degrees on my SR20 T25 setup. Looks like a pretty nice linear powerband though.
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Old 11-09-2014, 11:44 AM   #12
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needs better spool.
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Old 11-10-2014, 09:08 PM   #13
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That would be it, I think I run close to 20 degrees on my SR20 T25 setup. Looks like a pretty nice linear powerband though.
Yup, hopefully once he gets his transmission solution sorted we'll crank up the boost.

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needs better spool.
Quite honestly, I find this turbo to be disappointing. I was hoping it would spool a bit better with the 3" exhaust, but it did not help too much. He wants to swap a TII transmission, and once he does I'm going to hook up the EBC and crank up the boost.
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