Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats. (https://www.miataturbo.net/)
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-   -   Trackspeed Stage 2 VVT shortblock, EFR6758, E85, 452whp/427wtq@26psi. I'm scared. (https://www.miataturbo.net/dynos-timesheets-21/trackspeed-stage-2-vvt-shortblock-efr6758-e85-452whp-427wtq%4026psi-im-scared-95108/)

sonofthehill 12-06-2017 12:09 AM


Originally Posted by Savington (Post 1455370)
Will grab a set of slicks, either 23x8.5s or 24.5x8.5s, to get the car off the line and keep the driveline alive. It's a lofty goal, but if I can get the car to leave in the 1.7 60ft neighborhood on the slicks, it should dip into the 10s at 130-135mph.

No problem.

I have been trying to decide if I should get real slicks or get street/strip tires. It would be nice to be able to drive them to the track. Either way, I will enter comp rod or jackpot class when you show up so we can race together. You can crash in my guest room after if you want, should be no problem parking on a week night.

If you wouldn't mind sending me a link to a dw300 and regulator package when you have a chance, that would be nice.

codrus 12-06-2017 01:02 AM


Originally Posted by Savington (Post 1455370)
...it should dip into the 10s at 130-135mph. .

Right before they kick you out for not having an SFI scattershield, driveshaft loop, axle retainers, SFI harmonic balancer, etc. :)

--Ian

18psi 12-06-2017 01:33 AM

I'm going to be extremely impressed if you run that time

miata2fast 12-06-2017 07:58 AM


Originally Posted by codrus (Post 1455383)
Right before they kick you out for not having an SFI scattershield, driveshaft loop, axle retainers, SFI harmonic balancer, etc. :)

--Ian

Tracks are much more likely to let you slide on many things if you are at a test and tune night, the car has the obvious general safety equipment and appears relatively safe, and you’re not a smart ass, dumb ass, or both.

I think the the car has 10’s in it easy (well maybe not THAT easy). Start thinking more in the 1.5 60’ range. I went a 1.71 with less than 250 hp and 1.81 with 180 hp naturally aspirated setup. Don’t be disappointed if it doesn’t happen right off the bat. It will take practice and a little tweaking. It took me a while to get everything working properly.

Braineack 12-06-2017 10:43 AM


Originally Posted by codrus (Post 1455383)
Right before they kick you out for not having an SFI scattershield, driveshaft loop, axle retainers, SFI harmonic balancer, etc. :)

--Ian

meanwhile on race tracks...

patsmx5 12-06-2017 10:58 AM


Originally Posted by codrus (Post 1453854)
Any guesses how many 500hp drag strip passes it would take to lunch Savington's transmission? :)

--Ian

I always broke axles at the drag strip, not transmissions.

DeerHunter 12-06-2017 12:18 PM

For me, it was the Torsen.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...794adb8325.jpg

Braineack 12-06-2017 12:30 PM

yeah the torsen hexi-coils are weak to hard launches.

patsmx5 12-06-2017 12:32 PM

I twisted off two MSM axles at the drag strip and never broke the MSM torsen. They seem to be stronger than the regular miata torsen in my experience. I wouldn't recommend trying to run 1.7 60' times or faster on a stock torsen, that's probably going to break things.

miata2fast 12-06-2017 01:47 PM

I have broken my share of axles. I figured out my ride height needed adjusting.

I never had a torsen in my car, I now have a welded open diff. It might be a good idea to have a dedicated diff for track use.

ridethecliche 12-06-2017 11:12 PM

I was trawling old threads and found this. I just thought it was apt to post it on this thread.


Originally Posted by Savington (Post 309903)
Most important thing is cold start with forged pistons. I'll be using FM Weiscos (so long as I can get them in a 9.5:1 configuration).


Originally Posted by patsmx5 (Post 309904)
Outside of miatas, I've heard several things about different forged pistons. In general, people say the Wiseco's take forever to break in, and if you don't break them in you can crack them. But, if you break them in right, then they're indestructable.

On the other hand, JE's break in quick and work great, but they aren't as strong as the Wisecos, though still really strong.

But that's just what I've heard from different racers over the years. If I buy pistons, I'll buy Wiseco.

And sav, why 9.5? Isn't 9:1 plenty? If I buy pistons, they will be 8:1, not 9:1, and damn sure not 9.5:1.


Originally Posted by Savington (Post 309921)
Response. I'm going to stick with either this turbo, or a 2560 if I get a good deal on one. After driving a 500whp C5Z, I have no aspirations for 300whp anymore. I'm going to build my motor to be a responsive bulletproof 240-250whp machine and pick up a Vette in 2 or 3 years. You can easily do 240-250whp on 9.5:1, and the higher compression will give me more response and more torque off boost.


Savington 12-07-2017 02:16 PM

:rofl:

My how times change. We learned our lesson with high comp vs. low comp about 5 years ago with the GT2871R. Low comp = moar better.

I think I've mentioned it here before, but if I didn't have a business-facing motivation to push my parts to the limit and demonstrate their ability, I probably wouldn't have played with the 6758. I personally think the 6258 drives better, and you really can't use more than 325whp in a Miata on the street. I always push people into the 6258 if they are on the fence. If I were just building it for myself, I would have a 6258 with ~275whp on gas and ~325whp on E85 and I would be totally happy. The 415whp map is silly fun and I'm glad I get to play with it, but it's really hard to use it under 70mph and that makes the whole car seem a lot less approachable.

Reverant 12-07-2017 03:23 PM

Boost by VSS is your friend!

ridethecliche 12-07-2017 05:24 PM


Originally Posted by Savington (Post 1455695)
:rofl:

My how times change. We learned our lesson with high comp vs. low comp about 5 years ago with the GT2871R. Low comp = moar better.

I think I've mentioned it here before, but if I didn't have a business-facing motivation to push my parts to the limit and demonstrate their ability, I probably wouldn't have played with the 6758. I personally think the 6258 drives better, and you really can't use more than 325whp in a Miata on the street. I always push people into the 6258 if they are on the fence. If I were just building it for myself, I would have a 6258 with ~275whp on gas and ~325whp on E85 and I would be totally happy. The 415whp map is silly fun and I'm glad I get to play with it, but it's really hard to use it under 70mph and that makes the whole car seem a lot less approachable.

I found a NOS set of 9.5 supertechs for sale for a really good price and figured I'd search here and see if it was a totally terrible idea to run them. I found that thread when I was searching and thought those posts were wayyyy too good to not repost haha. I've been reading a lot of old rods only threads because I'm thinking of going that route and posts like yours above (re: 275-325hp in these cars being the sweet spot) are kind of helping my decision along.

That said, I've seen so many awesome things posted where folks like you were learning the ropes and it's just kind of awesome to see for multiple reasons. For instance, look at how far you've come in a few years. I think it's pretty remarkable how much more we know about these cars now and how much further we're able to push them. The NA's had been out for almost 20 years when you posted the items above. They've been out for almost 30 years now and we're still optimizing them.

I just think that's pretty cool.

On the flip side, it definitely shows why noobs like me get slightly overwhelmed with the amount of information at times. You had been working with miatas for how long when you posted that in 2008? 10 years later, you've learned a ton. It's hard to condense the knowledge that comes with experience into a statement as simple as "do xyz build for zyx goals". It's devoid of all the... "well yeah, I tried that half cocked idea you have right now that you think is novel a decade ago and it worked awesome/failed spectacularly and this other option is best for all these reasons." I.e. it's hard to bridge the theory -> application gap without experience... which is why you wanted 250hp 10 years ago and are now capable of builds like this now. It's also why folks (should) pay for your expertise when they order parts or spec builds from. You, emilio, etc etc etc have blown all the motors that the end user might think are a good idea... you've done the homework for them.

TLDR; It's cool that we're still learning so much more about cars that are almost 30 years old...

sonofthehill 12-07-2017 09:23 PM

I think you can get by with just a drive shaft loop. I have been thinking about a simple one that clamps to the PPF with a shackle bolt and some nyloc nuts. Just be sure to bring a fire rated jacket or suit, otherwise they won't let you race at all with an aftermarket turbo. No need to tell them you think you might run 10's. They will think it's similar to my car until it runs, even other turbo Miatas are usually slow.

ridethecliche 12-10-2017 10:37 PM

Savington, I just realized that everytime you build one of these motors with supertechs, you have them coated. Don't they have a coating from the factory to decrease skirt wear etc? Or do you just prefer your own blend for it?

sshamrockk 12-11-2017 07:42 AM


Originally Posted by ridethecliche (Post 1456199)
Savington, I just realized that everytime you build one of these motors with supertechs, you have them coated. Don't they have a coating from the factory to decrease skirt wear etc? Or do you just prefer your own blend for it?

He stated it was a thermal coating, so it's on the crown of the piston, the skirt is a wear coating.

sonofthehill 12-11-2017 11:31 AM

:facepalm:

Thank you!

Read The Content

ridethecliche 12-11-2017 05:15 PM

Yes, the content/context is that they come pre coated from the factory.

Guess I misread the phosphate coating as a heat coating...

https://www.supertechperformance.com/surface-finish-tp127#ribbon

sonofthehill 12-11-2017 06:42 PM

1st post of this thread, 5th line of text. Read the content! Seems like you misread lots of things, or perhaps you misunderstand the purpose of thermal rejection and anti-friction coatings.


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