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MSPNP basemap won't start - please help

 
Old 06-18-2019, 12:30 PM
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Default MSPNP basemap won't start - please help

I've posted about for help previously, but I'll try and be more consise this time...
  • had mspnp2 (diyautotune build) working fine with my NA6 running ITBs with alpha-n
  • built a new motor '99 1.8 based, reusing the ITB set up
    • using '99 cam & crank sensors
    • toyota COP conversion following kitten approved guide
    • has map singal input as intend to use ITBmode
First start isn't going well... can someone take a look at my tune and composite logs (second one the battery was giving up) and tell me if there's something obvious not right? Any pointers apprecitated.
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File Type: msq
CurrentTune.msq (87.7 KB, 9 views)
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Old 06-20-2019, 12:12 PM
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I can't see because I'm on my phone but are you running the same NA6 tune with just changes to the injectors?
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Old 06-20-2019, 12:42 PM
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Hi, I’ve started with a fresh base map for na6 (matching the ‘92 chassis year) because the new motor is so far removed from the old one (11:1cr big valve head etc). Maybe this wasn’t the best way?
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Old 06-20-2019, 01:20 PM
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I think this looks correct?...

any way I can varify the spark and injector signals from the logs?

I 'think' i'm getting both, occasionally get a pop if I give it gas, and I pulled a plug and varified getting a spark...
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Old 06-20-2019, 02:10 PM
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Looks like your cam signal is coming in as your crank signal, and there's no signal coming in from the crank. I believe this is an example of what you'd want.

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Old 06-20-2019, 03:10 PM
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Iíll check the wiring and do another log 👍
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Old 06-22-2019, 10:37 AM
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Yes, totally right, I had the cam/crank signal wires crossed. Fix this...



So close to starting now! it almost catches!

Revised map & log attached for reference. Any more hints to get it started? Pretty stoked to have got this far today!!
Attached Files
File Type: msq
2019-06-22_15.33.24.msq (115.7 KB, 3 views)
File Type: csv
2019-06-22_15.24.19.csv (10.5 KB, 1 views)
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Old 06-23-2019, 10:37 AM
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so that's another few hours spent flattening the battery and no start!

Checked the ignition timing, that seems to be around 10deg while cranking... so I think that leaves fuel to get right. Cranks, starts to pick up but doesn't get going. Adding throttle seems to help but it either dies or pops. Pops = too much fuel?

Tried altering cranking pulse ~10% each way, no apparent difference made. What am I missing? Another log attached.
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File Type: csv
2019-06-23_14.50.30.csv (10.6 KB, 1 views)
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Old 06-23-2019, 11:10 AM
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Pull your plugs to see if they're wet or dry. I fought a similar issue with a build, and it turned out that I plumbed the fuel lines to the rail backwards.
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Old 06-23-2019, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by wackbards View Post
Pull your plugs to see if they're wet or dry. I fought a similar issue with a build, and it turned out that I plumbed the fuel lines to the rail backwards.
Good call, wouldnít be the first time I got something back to front on this build... Iíll report back tomorrow 👍
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Old 06-27-2019, 05:28 PM
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Step in the right direction. Plugs were very much wet after cranking. Seems the req. fuel calc is giving me way too much fuel. Reducing this significantly I got to the point where it almost started... it'll the battery gave up. So...

I understand the req. fuel is simply a multiplier, and looking back at the tune I had on the old B6 this was 4.5, compared to the 10 the calc gives me. At around 6 it was looking like it'll start. Waiting on the battery to recharge. In the meantime, can someone check out my map and see if the scaling on the fuel table combined with the req. fuel multiplier looks half sensible as a starting point?

Want to sanity check that there's not another multiplier somewhere thats skewing things? before I start running the motor in.
Attached Files
File Type: msq
CurrentTune.msq (115.7 KB, 2 views)
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Old 06-27-2019, 06:01 PM
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Double check that you have your MAP set up right. I had the same issue, but it was because I had settings configured for a 3 bar sensor but my new MS had a 4 bar sensor. I ended up fiddling around with req fuel to compensate before I caught it. You can tell easily it's set up wrong if your physical O2 sensor gauge and the tunerstudio gauge are way out of agreement.
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Old 06-27-2019, 06:09 PM
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Before you start the car with the key on the MAP should be between 90 and 100kpa based on elevation. 100 at sea level
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Old 06-28-2019, 05:27 PM
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Ok I’m going to have another go at this tomorrow. Will start with verifying the map sensor config etc.

Would it be better to get it running on speed density first, dialling in the idle , base timing etc before switching to itb mode? Wondering if that’s what is screwing/complicating the whole ve table scaling thing?
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Old 06-28-2019, 07:09 PM
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ITB's are a nightmare to tune. You've got bad times ahead.
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Old 06-29-2019, 11:36 AM
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Still no joy. MAP checks out ok, I have a MPX4250 apparently, reads about 100 on ign on. Went back to usuing the clac for req. fuel. I've tried to make it as simple as possible by running speed density (I know this will be no good with the itbs at large throttle openings) just to get the thing idling.

Cranks, starts to catch and then dies.
Tried applying some throttle, that just kills it.
Tried altering Cranking PW up and down, same result.

I'm getting pretty hacked off with this! I remember when I went MS & itbs with my old b6 that getting it dialed in was tricky, but at least that started up with minimal pain. This not even trying to run makes me think there's something fundamentally off with timing or injection... timing looks ok as far as i can tell tryign to measure it while cranking. Fuel... well I can smell it, and it'll make a mighty pop if I give it too much throttle...
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Old 06-30-2019, 04:33 PM
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It lives!

looks like there was some funky values in the ase table on the base map �� so chuffed! Tried to post a YouTube video of it running but I dunno, that didn’t work!

thanks for the helpful pointers, I’ll let you know how it goes with itb mode ��
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