Parallel OBD 2 MS3 PRO, what problems will I need to solve to pass emissions? - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


ECUs and Tuning Discuss Engine Management, Tuning, & Programming

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-25-2015, 02:08 AM   #1
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (15)
 
patsmx5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 8,797
Total Cats: 248
Default Parallel OBD 2 MS3 PRO, what problems will I need to solve to pass emissions?

I'm installing a MS3 PRO into my 99' miata, with 100% of the factory emissions equipment installed, every piece, catalytic converter, MAF Sensor, egr, evap, etc. Factory ECU will see every factory sensor, MS3 PRO will be running fuel/spark/etc. This is for emissions testing/compliance. I'm working on wiring right now.

What potential problems will I have to solve?

I ready through some of y8s comments from when he ran parallel. And other's who ran parallel as well. I see most agree just swap stuff once a year for testing.

It seems the biggest potential CEL will be for short term fuel trims. Basically stock ECU sees the motor running say 14.6 AFR, so it says less fuel because running rich, but MS3 does nothing, so ECU says LESS FUEL STILL, and this happens till short term fuel trims are maxed, then CEL.

Other than that, if EVERY sensor is installed and working correctly, it seems to me this is the only potential CEL I would get, right? If so, I could potentially swap in stock injectors for emissions testing and let the factory ECU run them, have dual plugs for the factory injectors and ID 1Ks and swapping injectors is easy enough. 10 minute swap, drive around, pass emissions?

Any other ideas? I can't think of an easy way to make it pass this one any other way since MS3 PRO and factory ECU don't talk to each other. Maybe if EGO correction was always running the factory ecu would constantly target 14.7, 14.68, 14.69, 14.7, 14.71, 14.72, 14.71, etc, and the factory ecu would see this and be happy, but I don't know that.
patsmx5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2015, 11:57 AM   #2
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (15)
 
patsmx5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 8,797
Total Cats: 248
Default

Also leave the factory plugs for the 99' coil pack, so it would be swap injectors and swap to factory coil pack, so 99' ecu has full control of fuel/spark. Then it should definitely pass emissions. I would have to buy a 99' coilpack but no big deal. Doing it this way should make "swapping" to pass emissions a easy/quick process.
patsmx5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2015, 12:28 PM   #3
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,896
Total Cats: 1,792
Default

y8s decided it was easier to swap injectors, reinstall MAF, and wire wastegate open a week every 2 years.
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2015, 12:55 PM   #4
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (15)
 
patsmx5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 8,797
Total Cats: 248
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
y8s decided it was easier to swap injectors, reinstall MAF, and wire wastegate open a week every 2 years.
I know you're not y8s but.... Did he pass emissions with the MS/Adaptronic running spark? I'm trying to go with what works on this and get the car back together. I think I'm just going to keep the Coil pack and Injector plugs in their spots so if I needed, both are ready to be swapped.
patsmx5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2015, 01:16 PM   #5
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,896
Total Cats: 1,792
Default

i believe he passed with MS3 parallel.

unsure about adpatronic.
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2015, 09:29 PM   #6
SADFab Destructive Testing Engineer
iTrader: (5)
 
aidandj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Beaverton, USA
Posts: 17,999
Total Cats: 1,466
Default

Has anyone tried using something like a jimstim to fool the factory ecu into thinking it is controlling things? Just feed it a constant maf, Afr, cas signal?

Edit: didn't know how illegal this was, ignore my post if necessary
aidandj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2015, 10:25 PM   #7
Hittin' Boost & Cones
iTrader: (2)
 
240_to_miata's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Cromwell, Connecticut
Posts: 2,572
Total Cats: 11
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
y8s decided it was easier to swap injectors, reinstall MAF, and wire wastegate open a week every 2 years.
This is what I do.

I originally had a MS1 in parallel and I can pretty much guarantee that the ECU will not be happy enough to pass readiness codes if you are in parallel. Don't bother.
240_to_miata is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2015, 01:53 AM   #8
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (15)
 
patsmx5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 8,797
Total Cats: 248
Default

Yeap 99% sure that's what I'm going to do, just swap parts as needed when the time comes. At this point just going to design it so it's easy to do so, leaving the injector plugs, coil pack plugs, etc all in place.
patsmx5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2015, 08:09 AM   #9
Elite Member
 
Chiburbian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Gilberts, IL
Posts: 2,158
Total Cats: 131
Default

I played with parallel for about a year. I am not convinced it can't be done, but I know it can't be done by me with my current level of dedication and focus. I'd much rather spend my mental energy elsewhere and so I converted back to stand alone.
Chiburbian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2015, 09:00 AM   #10
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,896
Total Cats: 1,792
Default

I think his biggest issue was that he had no rear o2 sensor and/or cat, so he built an emulator.

I remember he passed emissions but soon just went full standalone after that. IIRC he passed again in two year without any issues just swapping injectors and reinstalling the MAF and driving "n/a" for a week.
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2015, 02:43 PM   #11
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (15)
 
patsmx5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 8,797
Total Cats: 248
Default

Ok possibly dumb question....

What sensors should I share from the factory ECU to the MS3 PRO?

Cam, Crank, TPS for sure. I will run GM CLT, AIT of course, so don't need to share those.

Anything else? Can I share the knock sensor?
patsmx5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2015, 05:45 PM   #12
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Leafy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NH
Posts: 9,093
Total Cats: 90
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aidandj View Post
Has anyone tried using something like a jimstim to fool the factory ecu into thinking it is controlling things? Just feed it a constant maf, Afr, cas signal?

Edit: didn't know how illegal this was, ignore my post if necessary
If you're going to go through all that work. Stick an arduino in the car with the full stock setup and have it sniff the obdII serial data both ways when connected to the damn emissions computer and then program the damn thing to output that when queried and wire it to the damn OBDII port. This is just as illegal as removing a cat, dont do it.
Leafy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2015, 07:14 PM   #13
SADFab Destructive Testing Engineer
iTrader: (5)
 
aidandj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Beaverton, USA
Posts: 17,999
Total Cats: 1,466
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
If you're going to go through all that work. Stick an arduino in the car with the full stock setup and have it sniff the obdII serial data both ways when connected to the damn emissions computer and then program the damn thing to output that when queried and wire it to the damn OBDII port. This is just as illegal as removing a cat, dont do it.
Purely hypothetical here (I have a 1990) but if all the ecu uses is AFR to determine readiness then all you need to feed it is the correct voltage signal on the stock narrowband wire.
aidandj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2015, 07:19 PM   #14
Murderator
iTrader: (76)
 
18psi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 36,197
Total Cats: 2,584
Default

not even close. the nb uses a ton of sensors and systems all of which have to play together just right. it's finicky
18psi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2015, 07:32 PM   #15
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Leafy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NH
Posts: 9,093
Total Cats: 90
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aidandj View Post
Purely hypothetical here (I have a 1990) but if all the ecu uses is AFR to determine readiness then all you need to feed it is the correct voltage signal on the stock narrowband wire.
Look at it this way.
The emissions computer is a member of the Gestapo, when he gets plugged into your cars computer his demands, papers please. And your jewish sympathizer car meekly replies with its make, model, vin number, and all its emissions readyness states. What you're proposing is making a set of cloned parents with fake names, founding a fake city, and opening your own german authorized printing facility in order to make a set of papers that pass muster, where I'm suggesting that you merely make a set of forged documents.
Leafy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2015, 07:35 PM   #16
SADFab Destructive Testing Engineer
iTrader: (5)
 
aidandj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Beaverton, USA
Posts: 17,999
Total Cats: 1,466
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
The emissions computer is a member of the Gestapo, when he gets plugged into your cars computer his demands, papers please.
Lol sigworthy
aidandj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2015, 09:35 AM   #17
y8s
2 Props,3 Dildos,& 1 Cat
iTrader: (8)
 
y8s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Fake Virginia
Posts: 19,038
Total Cats: 407
Default

I passed with the Adaptronic. Because I am the ******* man.

Check it: https://www.miataturbo.net/adaptroni...82/#post476173

There's all your ingredients, now you just have to be a chef.
y8s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2015, 10:01 AM   #18
Junior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
that7guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Bethesda, MD
Posts: 428
Total Cats: 7
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
Look at it this way.
The emissions computer is a member of the Gestapo, when he gets plugged into your cars computer his demands, papers please. And your jewish sympathizer car meekly replies with its make, model, vin number, and all its emissions readyness states. What you're proposing is making a set of cloned parents with fake names, founding a fake city, and opening your own german authorized printing facility in order to make a set of papers that pass muster, where I'm suggesting that you merely make a set of forged documents.
that7guy is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Buzzing from driver side of engine bay? (MS3 install) nick470 MEGAsquirt 7 06-16-2017 02:53 PM
My solution for Oiltemp and Oilpressure input into Megasuirt (MS3) Zaphod MEGAsquirt 41 01-24-2016 01:25 PM
WTB MP62 (Hotside) (NB2) Rick02R WTB 3 01-03-2016 08:18 PM
Leaky Wilwoods mx592 Suspension, Brakes, Drivetrain 1 10-01-2015 01:45 AM
Low oil pressure after 1.8 swap and new turbo setup JesseTheNoob DIY Turbo Discussion 15 09-30-2015 03:44 PM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:01 PM.