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Old 09-11-2012, 03:35 PM   #1
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Default Wideband witH power card

Hello, I've recently bought a used m45 setup for my 99. Everyone at school was telling me to run a wide band just to monitor things which I totally understand and would like to do but I was told by searching google and found that I didn't need a Wideband with this kit. Well I emailed Gary at tdr and he sent me install instructions and it said to make a run and watch afr but that would require a Wideband so I'm a tad bit confused. Does the power card come with the necessary mappings so that all I'll have to do is wire it in and be running fine? Or is there someowhere on the power card that tells me where I'm at?
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Old 09-11-2012, 03:48 PM   #2
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You have no way of monitoring what the exhaust says. You need a wideband otherwise you're tunning by feel. The device doesnt "need" a wideband to function however you should have a wideband installed so you can tune it.
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Old 09-11-2012, 03:59 PM   #3
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Ok that's what I figured I didn't think there was any other way, now that also means I will need to remove my raceland header and have a bung welded in to have the Wideband put in
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Old 09-11-2012, 04:26 PM   #4
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Wideband is extra insurance, but its only for keeping you informed. It will do nothing to change the way your car runs and you can't wire it to the powercard, or the stock ECU. (Ok, you can in theory make a fake narrowband output for the factory ECU and powercard, but that's a giant mess that never works correctly.)

You will need a wideband controller, sensor and a gauge. Something like an AEM UEGO or a Innovative LC1+DB gauge combo. There are nicer ones with more features, but either of these will get the job done. You will also need an extra bung welded into your exhaust BEFORE THE CAT CONVERTER. As you have a 99, you may have a 2 cat CA Spec exhaust car with a cat in the exhaust manifold. These were sold all over in various parts of the country, so you could have one. Get me some good pics of the exhaust manifold as its bolted to the engine and I can advise, as I had a CA spec car

The problem with the powercard fuel controllers is that they do not change your ignition advance, only your fueling. Worse is that its based on an internal table rather than any kind of feedback system other than a super basic RICH/LEAN "switch" built into the software, so you get to hope its correct. Fueling is only half of the puzzle. It takes a fine balance of ignition and fuel to keep your engine in the "safe zone" and still make good power. Generally more fuel is "safer" but its not always better. There are adjustable fuel powercards, and I've been told there are also timing powercards, so you are going to have to be a little more specific. These things have been around for a while, and they never really got any better.

Example: My Rotrex supercharger came with a voodoo/super/power card type controller that works with the stock ECU. I installed a AEM UEGO to keep an eye on things. When the car would transition from vac to boost, there was a noticeable transition where the controller would take over. Between 0-1psi, I was seeing about 13:1 AFRs. 1-2psi was about 12:1 AFR, 2-3psi was 11:1 AFR and anything between 3-6psi my gauge would max out and go "out of range" so its something RICHER than 10:1, and that's WAY too rich! 16mpg in a Miata sucks aaaaaassssssssss

...then I got a Megasquirt
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Old 09-11-2012, 07:12 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donnyg20 View Post
Ok that's what I figured I didn't think there was any other way, now that also means I will need to remove my raceland header and have a bung welded in to have the Wideband put in
Make sure they weld it down right before the cat, not right when the runners combine to 1.
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Old 09-11-2012, 08:47 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triple88a View Post
Make sure they weld it down right before the cat, not right when the runners combine to 1.
thats exactly what i was thinking to tell them, is it possible for them to do it while the header is on the car? I dont really have enough down time to take the header off then take it to the shop and back! Also does anyone have a review of the PLX SM-AFR with a DM-6 gauge! it seemed to be pretty legit I got the SM-AFR for free and the gauge is a touch gauge for 99.99

Last edited by donnyg20; 09-11-2012 at 08:51 PM. Reason: Also does anyone have a review on the PLX SM-AFR with the DM-6 gauge? they look to be pretty legit
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Old 09-11-2012, 09:05 PM   #7
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Highly doubt it, there's not enough room around the transmission to cut a hole and mount a plug.
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Old 09-12-2012, 02:51 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donnyg20 View Post
thats exactly what i was thinking to tell them, is it possible for them to do it while the header is on the car? I dont really have enough down time to take the header off then take it to the shop and back! Also does anyone have a review of the PLX SM-AFR with a DM-6 gauge! it seemed to be pretty legit I got the SM-AFR for free and the gauge is a touch gauge for 99.99
Faeflora seems to really, really like the PLX stuff so you might look for his build thread. Just search the words "rape" "sawzall" and "fail" and it should be in the top 5.
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Old 09-13-2012, 09:14 PM   #9
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Does anyone know what card this is?

The Jackson racing I structions I have don't match Witt the wire colors of the power card I have!
Attached Thumbnails
Wideband witH power card-th_2012-09-13_18-59-40_266.jpg  
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Old 09-13-2012, 09:30 PM   #10
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do yourself a favor, chuck that piece of crap in the trash where it belongs, and get a proper ecu.

I've had at least 2 guys come to me with terribly running m45 cars, both of whom I convinced to go MS, installed and tuned it for them, and they couldn't believe how much better and nicer their cars run now.
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Old 09-13-2012, 09:54 PM   #11
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Vlad, our boy here is trying to squeeze by with...even bellow the minimum.. you really think he'll go for a standalone? I do agree with you 100% however.
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Old 09-13-2012, 10:25 PM   #12
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I think Jackson Racing went through at least a couple generations of those things. That one looks like the one that was the same as the last generation Flyin' Miata VooDoo box.

Old Voodoo box:
http://www.flyinmiata.com/support/in...Voodoo_Box.pdf

Current Generation VooDoo box:
Flyin' Miata : Engine/Drivetrain : Engine computers : The Voodoo Box
http://www.flyinmiata.com/support/in...oo_Box_new.pdf

My Kraftwerks Rotrex "Digital Fuel Controller" is the same circuit board and component layout as the older FM VooDoo, but its in the newer metal case. Its also NOT ADJUSTABLE

The guys above are right though, these things are trouble. You would be better suited with a Megasquirt or even an AEM if you need someone to tune it for you.
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Old 09-15-2012, 12:53 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donnyg20 View Post
Does anyone know what card this is?

The Jackson racing I structions I have don't match Witt the wire colors of the power card I have!
IIRC
Red - 12v
Black - GND
Blue - Cyl 1 injector
Three gray - in any sequence Cyl 2 - 4
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Old 08-21-2013, 05:42 PM   #14
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I have that same little pos box. Mine ran like crap because of those stupid scotch lock connectors, they are crap and no one should ever use them for anything. I soldered the connections and the afr's look far better then I thought they would. Way rich is boost, but oh well.
m45 on 99.
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Old 09-09-2013, 01:45 PM   #15
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I've been looking for this answer for a while now. Thanks!
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Old 09-09-2013, 05:24 PM   #16
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you do not "need" a wideband but it would be a pretty unwise decision to not have one on an aftermarket forced induction car.
If something goes wrong and your car starts to lean out and then blows up is something that could easily be avoided when you look down and see 16:1 in boost!!! oh crap, remove foot from pedal.
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Old 09-09-2013, 07:08 PM   #17
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Yeah, I'm just in the same boat as the original poster. College student. No $$$. I have a 94' with a jrsc kit and a pc pro. I'm getting a O2 clamp from flying miata and will also be getting a AFM wideband just to see where I am at too. I get around 17mpg at best and get soot built up on my bumper above the exhaust. Hesitation going into boost and hesitation out of boost if engine is under stress. Would love to invest in a full ECU but if an O2 clamp will be enough to get my piggyback where I want it, I will be happy. One more question.

Will a wideband effect smog in CA? I would putting the bung right before the CAT.
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Old 09-09-2013, 07:44 PM   #18
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I hear you guys.
A wideband will not effect smog. If you are running a stock ecu it will be a totally separate unit. Well that is the way I did it anyway with my 99.
I just worry that the vacuum line pops off the piggyback and you melt a piston
You will need the wideband for the standalone for sure in the future, might as well get it now, it's way cheaper then a motor. I am guessing they are somewhere around $160 for an aem or innovate with db gauge.
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Old 09-09-2013, 08:54 PM   #19
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Quote:
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A wideband will not effect smog. If you are running a stock ecu it will be a totally separate unit.
It has no effect on the actual emissions the vehicle outputs, but you can in theory fail on a visual as the wideband itself has no CARB EO#

Yarr, California SMOG inspections be a harsh mistress indeed.
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Old 09-10-2013, 01:22 PM   #20
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Okay thanks for all the information guys! One more thing. Will there be any ill effects if I run the power card and the O2 clamp of the same vacuum line? I would T it off at the end so they would receive equal parts air.
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