Bolt on VVT swap dyno - Page 2 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Engine Performance This section is for discussion on all engine building related questions.
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-24-2015, 01:58 AM   #21
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Greenville SC
Posts: 261
Total Cats: 15
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by noname4me View Post
Nice dyno numbers... Torque curve looks fairly flat without the typical mid-rpm dip that stock Miata's tend to have.

I am surprised to see 9 degrees of intake cam advance on the top end. Did you try lower values like 5 or 0 degrees? Most tgreads on this forum covering VVT tuning suggest reducing advance to 0-5 degrees above 5500rpm. Assuming that you did try less advance and the dyno showed less power, any idea why your setup likes the additional high RPM advance? (It does go against the theory of adjustable intake cams, not just forum posts...)

Thanks
I did try both ways.. Started at 7 and went down to 5, and it made less power. Went up to 9 and it made more. No idea why, but I'm very happy with the torque curve throughout.
Uncle Humjaba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2015, 02:05 AM   #22
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Greenville SC
Posts: 261
Total Cats: 15
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben View Post
<p>You have 2 rows in your ignition table set at 100kpa load.&nbsp; Set your top ignition load row over 100kpa.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>I'm super jealous of your power.&nbsp; I think we need some drag times to substantiate.&nbsp; &nbsp; My very similar build makes &lt;120whp on our dynapack.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p>
Yeah, I thought I fixed that but must have reverted to an earlier tune. Thanks for pointing it out.

As far as the dyno is concerned, I agree.. Especially for a Mustang dyno I think it was pretty high. But who knows. Was yours sae weather corrected? My uncorrected number was 139whp (95 degrees F, 966ft altitude). Here is mine in comparison to my friend's 93 with a 99 engine, rb header and intake, light flywheel and straight exhaust taken on the same dyno a couple days later (crap quality sorry)

Attached Thumbnails
Bolt on VVT swap dyno-80-img_20150711_183610_420d47cbec9c16370708a9ea185ca6057f74550b.jpg  
Uncle Humjaba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2015, 03:54 PM   #23
Junior Member
iTrader: (4)
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Athens GA
Posts: 434
Total Cats: 3
Default

Can you post a pic of your AFR table?

Thanks,
-Raj
redrider706 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2015, 04:25 PM   #24
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: durham NC
Posts: 767
Total Cats: 115
Default

Let's just attribute all of this to my intake design and not spend time thinking about what else could be well set up.
asmasm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2015, 12:42 PM   #25
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Greenville SC
Posts: 261
Total Cats: 15
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by redrider706 View Post
Can you post a pic of your AFR table?

Thanks,
-Raj
This was the state of my tune before the dyno. The VE table and VVT table are slightly different now, but same AFR targets




Quote:
Originally Posted by asmasm View Post
Let's just attribute all of this to my intake design and not spend time thinking about what else could be well set up.
I didn't do a back-to-back on the dyno (wish I could have) but there was definitely a noticeable seat-of-the-pants improvement on the top end when I switched over from the stock '95 intake to yours!
Attached Thumbnails
Bolt on VVT swap dyno-80-47zbgea_26475d33765bcf8040f022c6484116c441355ba9.png  
Uncle Humjaba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2015, 03:28 PM   #26
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 56
Total Cats: 4
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Humjaba View Post
I did try both ways.. Started at 7 and went down to 5, and it made less power. Went up to 9 and it made more. No idea why, but I'm very happy with the torque curve throughout.
Advancing the intake cam increases dynamic compression, typically at the cost of airflow (on the top end) though. Typical rule of thumb is to increase advance down low for more torque, but back it out up top for airflow. All this shows is that for some reason, you're making more power from "compression" than airflow here. Maybe you've got really good gas, or your ignition timing is a little low to allow that dynamic compression increase, it could be any number of things.

BTW, i dont mean to insult your intelligence if you already knew this stuff and that was a rhetorical question solid numbers though, add me to the list of people jealous and wishing we had that power band.
Voltwings is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2015, 01:47 AM   #27
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Greenville SC
Posts: 261
Total Cats: 15
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by asmasm View Post
Let's just attribute all of this to my intake design and not spend time thinking about what else could be well set up.
Is this the first your intake has been used on a VVT engine with a square top?
Also, you should update your site - the guy you used in Charleston has moved to Europe, but I got mine printed at makexyz.com in one piece for $82.
Uncle Humjaba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2015, 11:02 AM   #28
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: durham NC
Posts: 767
Total Cats: 115
Default

As far as I know it is the first time it has been tested with a vvt engine and a squaretop. Also, I do need to update my site, but this will also be going online soon:
http://www.durhamcomposite.com/
asmasm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2015, 08:10 PM   #29
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Greenville SC
Posts: 261
Total Cats: 15
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by asmasm View Post
As far as I know it is the first time it has been tested with a vvt engine and a squaretop. Also, I do need to update my site, but this will also be going online soon:
http://www.durhamcomposite.com/
Looks fancy. If you need any help on the website side of things, or with testing let me know. I'm down in Greenville SC

(see sig for web related things)
Uncle Humjaba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2015, 01:07 AM   #30
Newb
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 2
Total Cats: 0
Default

I am in Jacksonville NC right now, doing my VVT swap and tinkering. We should do a get together some time. My good friend runs the NC/SC miata page on facebook.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunning Kruger Affect View Post
The NC/SC VVT swap crew grows stronger...
jwilbanks197 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2016, 12:07 AM   #31
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Greenville SC
Posts: 261
Total Cats: 15
Default

Didn't want to make a new thread, but I had some fun at AMP this last weekend. The car seems to accelerate pretty well as long as speeds are relatively low - above 100MPH it seems to hit an aero wall. I'm running the soft top, no front dam or lip and 225 width tires, so no surprises there. Definitely at least a second left on the table through driving improvements. I need less drag and better tires though - these 2 year old Rivals are downright awful when it's damp.

Some guy in an NC came up to me after one session and asked if I had a supercharger, because I kept pulling away on the straights First time that's ever happened. I'm sure corner exit speed helped.
Uncle Humjaba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2016, 10:53 AM   #32
Ben
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (33)
 
Ben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: atlanta-ish
Posts: 12,689
Total Cats: 99
Default

Sweet, thanks for the vid. I'm hella gonna use that new runoff area on 6.

Driving wasn't bad at all, but if you were looking for some tips:
-You can brake in a straight line T3-T4 and carry more speed through T4. You were early on T6, 11 and 12. Way off line through the carousel. You don't have to lift through the kink and use all of the track (and it scares me every time).

WTF was that guy doing on the left side of the main straight? Yikes.
Ben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2016, 03:01 PM   #33
Senior Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 613
Total Cats: 12
Default

Nice driving!
I am dyno tuning my Miata this Friday, I have the same setup you have, MS3 + vvt + squaretop. Did you mess with the VVT PID values at all?
Mine are:
P=50
I=17
D=130

That's what Reverent uses, D seems really high
btabor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2016, 07:14 PM   #34
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Greenville SC
Posts: 261
Total Cats: 15
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben View Post
Sweet, thanks for the vid. I'm hella gonna use that new runoff area on 6.

Driving wasn't bad at all, but if you were looking for some tips:
-You can brake in a straight line T3-T4 and carry more speed through T4. You were early on T6, 11 and 12. Way off line through the carousel. You don't have to lift through the kink and use all of the track (and it scares me every time).

WTF was that guy doing on the left side of the main straight? Yikes.

Hey, thanks for the feedback. Were you there this weekend? This was my 3rd time at AMP, the first two being chump races in an old integra. Still trying to get it figured out. Is the "carousel" turns 14/15 or turn 4? I messed with different lines through 15 all day but since I don't lift from 14 to turn 1 it didn't seem to matter much. In our chump car we just hugged the inside of 15 to make the distance as short as possible.

Turn 11 is hard in my car because the left front tire goes slamming into the tub, so I tried to take that corner in a somewhat civilized manner... not flat out and *** hanging out like our chump car. I need to get that figured out (bigger bump stops I suppose, or raise the car)

Guy on main straight had just stuffed it into the front straight wall and bounced across the track, coming to a stop where I passed him. That ended our session (see black/yellow flag at start/finish).

Last edited by Uncle Humjaba; 03-17-2016 at 02:03 PM.
Uncle Humjaba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2016, 07:16 PM   #35
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Greenville SC
Posts: 261
Total Cats: 15
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by btabor View Post
Nice driving!
I am dyno tuning my Miata this Friday, I have the same setup you have, MS3 + vvt + squaretop. Did you mess with the VVT PID values at all?
Mine are:
P=50
I=17
D=130

That's what Reverent uses, D seems really high
Yes I have messed with it, but to what amount I've improved things I can't say. It idles well. Cold and hot starts are still questionable, though PID wouldn't affect that. I'm at 25/50/60 for PID, 1545 gain (though I guess this doesnt do anything in advanced mode?)
Uncle Humjaba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2016, 08:08 PM   #36
Senior Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 613
Total Cats: 12
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Humjaba View Post
Yes I have messed with it, but to what amount I've improved things I can't say. It idles well. Cold and hot starts are still questionable, though PID wouldn't affect that. I'm at 25/50/60 for PID, 1545 gain (though I guess this doesnt do anything in advanced mode?)
Oh, I was referring to the vvt actuator PID, not the IAC valve PID. Haha
btabor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2016, 10:00 AM   #37
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Greenville SC
Posts: 261
Total Cats: 15
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by btabor View Post
Oh, I was referring to the vvt actuator PID, not the IAC valve PID. Haha
Well I can't read... Those are the same as mine and I didnt see any reason to change them
Uncle Humjaba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2016, 02:22 PM   #38
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 903
Total Cats: 59
Default

I see that you still have the airbag in the car, have you put the car on a diet at all? Mine's pretty fat as-is but does touch the top of 4th @ 7200rpm with a dubious 140whp/120ft-lbs that was put down 3 years ago.

I'm running FCMs super low (4" pinch weld, rubs on everything), 15x9s with 225s, hardtop, and the R package front lip.
Dunning Kruger Affect is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2016, 05:17 PM   #39
Ben
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (33)
 
Ben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: atlanta-ish
Posts: 12,689
Total Cats: 99
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Humjaba View Post
Hey, thanks for the feedback. Were you there this weekend? This was my 3rd time at AMP, the first two being chump races in an old integra. Still trying to get it figured out. Is the "carousel" turns 14/15 or turn 4? I messed with different lines through 15 all day but since I don't lift from 14 to turn 1 it didn't seem to matter much. In our chump car we just hugged the inside of 15 to make the distance as short as possible.
No, I was not at that event. I was referring to the T14 complex. Track out for 14 and then stay in tight for 15. Don't lift until T1 braking zone.
Try that in an Exocet sometime!!

I was at the past 2 Chump events at AMP with Hong Norrth Racing. P1 both times baby.
Attached Thumbnails
Bolt on VVT swap dyno-8.jpg   Bolt on VVT swap dyno-9.jpg  
Ben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2016, 06:39 PM   #40
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Greenville SC
Posts: 261
Total Cats: 15
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben View Post
No, I was not at that event. I was referring to the T14 complex. Track out for 14 and then stay in tight for 15. Don't lift until T1 braking zone.
Try that in an Exocet sometime!!

I was at the past 2 Chump events at AMP with Hong Norrth Racing. P1 both times baby.
Yep, I'm wide open from 14 till I brake for 1 so long as there isn't a broken civic in the way.

I've run amp a couple times in our white 1st gen integra, road Atlanta and vir with chump too. Never fast or coordinated enough to be competitive though. Pretty sure I saw you guys with jzilla out at road Atlanta last time I was there too, one of your mx3s was trying to chase me down.
Uncle Humjaba is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Need help - Stock Balancer and Fastforward overlay pulleys Frank_and_Beans Supercharger Discussion 13 09-12-2016 09:17 PM
WTB MP62 (Hotside) (NB2) Rick02R WTB 3 01-03-2016 08:18 PM
Noob to Miataturbo from MA JxPhan Meet and Greet 3 10-02-2015 03:17 AM
Time to start learning and play with tuning The Gleas MEGAsquirt 3 10-01-2015 10:30 AM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:39 AM.