Efficient Engine Bolt-ons - Page 3 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Engine Performance This section is for discussion on all engine building related questions.
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Efficient Engine Bolt-ons

Old 01-10-2019, 09:39 PM
  #41  
Newb
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 15
Total Cats: 5
Default

Originally Posted by ridethecliche View Post
Are you planning on E85 or boost? If not, the DW200 pump seems like a bit overkill. It'll work fine, but if you haven't bought the pump yet, the DW100 will be more than adequate.
See trackspeed's recs here Deatschwerks Fuel Pumps (DW100/200/300)

Dammit, borka beat me to it.
Lol! DW200 was the one my supplier had available at the moment.
gloryracing is offline  
Old 01-10-2019, 10:02 PM
  #42  
Elite Member
iTrader: (7)
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 2,390
Total Cats: 143
Default

I can bench race for days on mods you should do for NASA classing! Keep in mind D and E are no more, replaced with 5 and 6 which are different rulesets.
flier129 is offline  
Old 01-10-2019, 10:04 PM
  #43  
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 96
Total Cats: 0
Default

Yes this bunch is viscous, full of great knowledge but can become trolls in a keystroke. Search function is your friend, or just spend your time reading the Race prep area.

https://www.miataturbo.net/build-thr...e-103-a-90770/ just one of many.

The rules you are running will dictate many of your mods. Do not know if the island rules are much looser???

Mainland NASA TTE can be very fickle on any non stock or even factory package upgrades. Read the rules carefully and talk to the TT director to see how you should go.

In Florida you will need a car running at the front of spec Miata or E30 to be competitive in TTE and will need Hoosiers. Many of the mods you mention will kick you pointed up, and a lot are not relevant for a TTE build.

What you have listed is much closer to a Supermiata S2 build, unfortunately that does not exist anywhere near you.

There are several very good TTE build threads in both the road race and build sections.

https://www.miataturbo.net/local-mee...ackdays-97589/

Last edited by Blkbrd69; 01-10-2019 at 10:19 PM.
Blkbrd69 is offline  
Old 01-10-2019, 10:23 PM
  #44  
Newb
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 15
Total Cats: 5
Default

Originally Posted by flier129 View Post
I can bench race for days on mods you should do for NASA classing! Keep in mind D and E are no more, replaced with 5 and 6 which are different rulesets.
Will need to compare them to see how similar they are but I'm sure we have some differences. Here the NB Miata starts in E with no penalty points. Would need to see the NASA classing to compare.
gloryracing is offline  
Old 01-10-2019, 10:29 PM
  #45  
Newb
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 15
Total Cats: 5
Default

Originally Posted by Blkbrd69 View Post
Yes this bunch is viscous, full of great knowledge but can become trolls in a keystroke. Search function is your friend, or just spend your time reading the Race prep area.

https://www.miataturbo.net/build-thr...e-103-a-90770/ just one of many.

The rules you are running will dictate many of your mods. Do not know if the island rules are much looser???

Mainland NASA TTE can be very fickle on any non stock or even factory package upgrades. Read the rules carefully and talk to the TT director to see how you should go.

In Florida you will need a car running at the front of spec Miata or E30 to be competitive in TTE and will need Hoosiers. Many of the mods you mention will kick you pointed up, and a lot are not relevant for a TTE build.

What you have listed is much closer to a Supermiata S2 build, unfortunately that does not exist anywhere near you.

There are several very good TTE build threads in both the road race and build sections.

https://www.miataturbo.net/local-mee...ackdays-97589/
I'm sure they might be a little looser.

I agree with the mods. That's why I want to keep learning to make the right decision with the mods that go in.

I had not occurred to me to search for TTE. Thanks!!!
gloryracing is offline  
Old 01-10-2019, 10:32 PM
  #46  
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 96
Total Cats: 0
Default

A few notes;

Racing is expensive.....very expensive......did I mention it gets stupid expensive. Sold my Corvettes to run a Miata and now could have bought a C5Z for what I have in the Miata. Realize everything is much more expensive on the island

A good rollbar IE Blackbird Fabworx and a style bar are 2 completely different things. Style bar should not pass tech even though the do sneak by sometimes if the tech guy doesn't know what to look for.

A "real" race seat, Hans and 6 point harness is worth several seconds on many tracks. 3+ for me at Sebring. Barring that a G-Loc helps.

The Xida coilovers are awesome. They will make you want sticky tires, bushings, ext. ext. ext.

Ask and research, learn from other racers mistakes.

Most of what you read on many forums is outdated and just flat wrong, written by "guys-kids" that are doing things for the first time and going them wrong. Noted you are not either.

Last edited by Blkbrd69; 01-10-2019 at 10:47 PM.
Blkbrd69 is offline  
Old 01-11-2019, 09:15 AM
  #47  
Elite Member
iTrader: (6)
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Staunton, Va
Posts: 3,016
Total Cats: 350
Default

Fastest way to become a milionare- start with 10 million and begin racing something with 4 wheels.
ryansmoneypit is offline  
Old 01-11-2019, 11:22 AM
  #48  
Elite Member
iTrader: (8)
 
Ryan_G's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 2,693
Total Cats: 188
Default

Originally Posted by ryansmoneypit View Post
Fastest way to become a milionare- start with 10 million and begin racing something with 4 wheels.
The quote is: "The best way to make a small fortune in racing is to start with a big one." - Junior Johnson
Ryan_G is offline  
Old 01-11-2019, 12:05 PM
  #49  
Elite Member
iTrader: (7)
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 2,390
Total Cats: 143
Default

Originally Posted by gloryracing View Post
Will need to compare them to see how similar they are but I'm sure we have some differences. Here the NB Miata starts in E with no penalty points. Would need to see the NASA classing to compare.
Here's some light reading on both ST5/TT5 and ST6/TT6:
https://www.miataturbo.net/race-prep...st5-tt5-95309/
https://www.miataturbo.net/race-prep...st6-tt6-97655/

Here's my favorite ST5/TT5 build:
https://www.miataturbo.net/build-thr...e-103-a-90770/

And here's my favorite ST6/TT6 build(I'm biased):
https://www.miataturbo.net/build-thr...st6-tt6-83284/


The new rule-set for the number classes honestly makes it easier to manage. Less worry about getting the right combo of this part or that part for the correct amount of points. It's based on a weight-to-power formula with a handful of modifiers, such as the type of tires, aero, A-arm suspension, brakes, etc. Everything you have listed on your parts list doesn't add as a modifier. The rules don't care if you have an ECU, 5A intake cam, or hood vents now. They do have a tire template rule, it's a measurement of the width of the tire while mounted on the wheel. Certain car weights have to fit into certain templates. Keep in mind competition weight is "wet" so with driver, fuel, cool-suit, etc.

Here's some example weightower ratios for the NB:
ST5/TT5
2250lbs @ 144rwhp avg ~150rwhp peak. Front air-dam, 4" splitter, rear wing. Must follow 226mm tire template (205 R7 on 15x8)
2400lbs @ 154rwhp avg ~159rwhp peak. Front air-dam, 4" splitter, rear wing. Must follow 257mm tire template (205/225 R7 on 15x9)
2450lbs @ 168rwhp avg ~174rwhp peak. OEM aero. Must follow 257mm tire template

ST6/TT6
2400lbs @ 128rwhp avg ~133rwhp peak. OEM aero. 257mm tire template
2450lbs @ 131rwhp avg ~136rwhp peak. OEM aero. 257mm tire template
2300lbs @ 123rwhp avg ~128rwhp peak. OEM aero. 226mm tire template.


NASA does have a decent calculator that helps with determining your power and weight goals: https://form.jotform.com/drivenasa/s...ification-form

It sounds like you're on the right track for parts and several people here have already started giving some good input. So what you'll really want to decide next is what class will you run? Thankfully there isn't anything inherent on a 6 car that will stop it from becoming a good 5 car. So if you want to start in 6 then move up to 5 later on, you'll be good to go. Only constraint I could think of for that route is "while you're in there" mods not being done initially.
flier129 is offline  
Old 01-11-2019, 01:32 PM
  #50  
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (3)
 
emilio700's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 5,897
Total Cats: 1,644
Default

As others have mentioned, NASA "letter" classes (Performance Touring) are officially defunct. If your group in PR wants to hit the easy button by cribbing NASA rules, it would be even easier for both racers and the sanctioning body to adopt the current ST (Super Touring) rules.
Easier to figure out what to build, cheaper to build for a given lap time, easier to tech and police on their side. I'd contact the body and verify which rule set you will need to build to first.

That said, an ST6 car is going to be a lot cheaper to make competitive than an ST5 car. Like junkyard vs built motor cheap. I wrote this a few years back if you plan open the engine: https://www.miataturbo.net/engine-pe...g-ideas-83443/
An ST6 car is neither powerful nor light so any speed comes from handling balance and keeping the engine in the powerband as much as possible. Handling wise, it's good shocks and suspension setup coupled with lowest CG you can afford with the lowest MOI (Moment of Inertia) you can build.
That means taking as much weight off the ends of the car as possible, with particular focus on the nose. Every pound counts so things like a lightweight race skin hard top in stead of a factory hard top will pay off.

Powerband wise means careful tuning of engine for greatest area under the curve, not peak power. Then gearing it so it will stay as close to peak power everywhere on track. Most critically when exiting turns. If you fall off the powerband exiting even one turn, that can add a full second to lap time pretty easily.
ST5 car benefits from aero but power still reigns as most important. ST6 car gains little from aero and almost none is allowed anyway.
__________________


www.facebook.com/SuperMiata

949RACING.COM Home of the 6UL wheel

.27 SNR
emilio700 is offline  
Old 01-11-2019, 02:45 PM
  #51  
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Chandler, AZ
Posts: 922
Total Cats: 139
Default

I'm surprised NASA hasn't sent a cease and desist letter for using the rulesets or even safety guidelines lol.
Arca_ex is offline  
Old 01-11-2019, 03:12 PM
  #52  
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (3)
 
emilio700's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 5,897
Total Cats: 1,644
Default

Originally Posted by Arca_ex View Post
I'm surprised NASA hasn't sent a cease and desist letter for using the rulesets or even safety guidelines lol.
Unfortunately, it's really easy to circumvent copyright laws in the US. Just change enough of the text to be able to argue in court that it's original. Court costs money so most smaller companies are reluctant to file suit unless they are sure that they win, be awarded a decent settlement then actually collect on that claim.
But NASA probably doesn't know about it anyway :P
__________________


www.facebook.com/SuperMiata

949RACING.COM Home of the 6UL wheel

.27 SNR
emilio700 is offline  
Old 01-12-2019, 09:36 AM
  #53  
Newb
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 15
Total Cats: 5
Default

Great information!

It's very interesting all of the things that NASA rules take into consideration to classify a car and adjudicate points penalty. Here in PR they are not weighting the cars, putting them on the dyno or taking points from aero modifications. In our case they don't have the budget, facilities or personnel to conduct those rigorous inspections.
gloryracing is offline  
Old 01-12-2019, 10:43 AM
  #54  
Newb
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 15
Total Cats: 5
Default

Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
Handling wise, it's good shocks and suspension setup coupled with lowest CG you can afford with the lowest MOI (Moment of Inertia) you can build.
That means taking as much weight off the ends of the car as possible, with particular focus on the nose. Every pound counts so things like a lightweight race skin hard top in stead of a factory hard top will pay off.

Powerband wise means careful tuning of engine for greatest area under the curve, not peak power. Then gearing it so it will stay as close to peak power everywhere on track. Most critically when exiting turns. If you fall off the powerband exiting even one turn, that can add a full second to lap time pretty easily.
ST5 car benefits from aero but power still reigns as most important. ST6 car gains little from aero and almost none is allowed anyway.
We've been going threw the rules because there are lots of differences but it's interesting to be able to maximize de rules to our advantage. In my case I don't get penalty points for aero so would it be correct to say we could build a ST6 (ST6 = E, correct) that benefits from the aero? I read almost all of your tech articles in the website and it's really great information.

gloryracing is offline  
Old 01-12-2019, 01:17 PM
  #55  
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (3)
 
emilio700's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 5,897
Total Cats: 1,644
Default

If aero is free then concentrate on the lowest drag options, considering your power level. Supermiata S1 aero it's going to be your best bet.
__________________


www.facebook.com/SuperMiata

949RACING.COM Home of the 6UL wheel

.27 SNR
emilio700 is offline  
Old 01-13-2019, 12:32 AM
  #56  
Newb
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 15
Total Cats: 5
Default

Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
If aero is free then concentrate on the lowest drag options, considering your power level. Supermiata S1 aero it's going to be your best bet.
I'm going to check it out!
gloryracing is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
dcamp2
Dynos and timesheets
6
01-13-2015 05:59 AM
itskrees
Engine Performance
45
05-02-2014 03:11 PM
miatamania
Dynos and timesheets
1
05-23-2011 03:59 AM
TonyC
Insert BS here
25
03-07-2008 10:23 PM


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: Efficient Engine Bolt-ons


Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

© 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.