FIC (Fuel Injector Clinic) vs Injector Dynamics
#61
Thanks for your PM William, but I can't reply there until I have 15 posts.
Found the correct o-ring size:
Injector Dynamics 1000cc injector set for 90-05 Miata
Looks like we are not reading the dead time in the table correctly. The correct ID dead time:
http://www.injectordynamics.com/ID1000UF3B.gif or http://www.injectordynamics.com/ID1000SumData.gif on page Injector Dynamics - ID1000 Specifications
Seems to match their FNPW_OFFSET + MINPW. Better than Ford's numbers, but in the end, dead time is not a big deal if they do not differ.
I'll probably end up getting the GT500 injectors when I am finished tuning NA on my stock injectors.
Thanks for the idea and lead.
Found the correct o-ring size:
Injector Dynamics 1000cc injector set for 90-05 Miata
Looks like we are not reading the dead time in the table correctly. The correct ID dead time:
http://www.injectordynamics.com/ID1000UF3B.gif or http://www.injectordynamics.com/ID1000SumData.gif on page Injector Dynamics - ID1000 Specifications
Seems to match their FNPW_OFFSET + MINPW. Better than Ford's numbers, but in the end, dead time is not a big deal if they do not differ.
I'll probably end up getting the GT500 injectors when I am finished tuning NA on my stock injectors.
Thanks for the idea and lead.
#66
I just got a reply today and the answer was almost exactly what you said. Smaller sizes are special order from 350cc and up and the pricing was almost identical to the 1050cc although the guy said he would confirm pricing if I was interested. They actually recommended I just get the ev14 365cc considering the price is the same for all SP's and I dont need a large injector.
I am torn though between getting a set of ID 725cc and the FIC 365cc, and I am only considering the the ID725 due to ID matching low duty cycle tolerences so closely since this car is a street car and will have to pass emissions.
I am torn though between getting a set of ID 725cc and the FIC 365cc, and I am only considering the the ID725 due to ID matching low duty cycle tolerences so closely since this car is a street car and will have to pass emissions.
#69
I just got a reply today and the answer was almost exactly what you said. Smaller sizes are special order from 350cc and up and the pricing was almost identical to the 1050cc although the guy said he would confirm pricing if I was interested. They actually recommended I just get the ev14 365cc considering the price is the same for all SP's and I dont need a large injector.
I am torn though between getting a set of ID 725cc and the FIC 365cc, and I am only considering the the ID725 due to ID matching low duty cycle tolerences so closely since this car is a street car and will have to pass emissions.
I am torn though between getting a set of ID 725cc and the FIC 365cc, and I am only considering the the ID725 due to ID matching low duty cycle tolerences so closely since this car is a street car and will have to pass emissions.
One of the things I'm trying to determine is just how important the low duty cycle tolerance matching is with these smaller size injectors. I can see the immediate necessity with the bigger sizes because, well, they're huge, and as a percentage, their variations can really amount to something significant, but with something in the 525cc range and under, and in relevant terms, isn't there inherently more tolerance for a larger deviation such that we don't even need that level of accuracy? is it REALLY going to make tuning THAT much better? Or should I say, is it better enough to warrant a noticeable return on the extra $170 for the ID's? I know you get what you pay for, but I just don't want to pay for something I'll never really use, IF that is the case.
#71
I'm sort of in a similar situation. For my expected power levels, I certainly don't need all that much upside and besides I already have a brand new set of DW 335cc's sitting on the shelf, but I decided I'd still like a little more headroom, so I was actually juggling between the 525cc FIC's and the ID725's. If you'll note (Miata NA/NB ), the 525cc are actually cheaper than the 365cc model which is why I chose them.
One of the things I'm trying to determine is just how important the low duty cycle tolerance matching is with these smaller size injectors. I can see the immediate necessity with the bigger sizes because, well, they're huge, and as a percentage, their variations can really amount to something significant, but with something in the 525cc range and under, and in relevant terms, isn't there inherently more tolerance for a larger deviation such that we don't even need that level of accuracy? is it REALLY going to make tuning THAT much better? Or should I say, is it better enough to warrant a noticeable return on the extra $170 for the ID's? I know you get what you pay for, but I just don't want to pay for something I'll never really use, IF that is the case.
One of the things I'm trying to determine is just how important the low duty cycle tolerance matching is with these smaller size injectors. I can see the immediate necessity with the bigger sizes because, well, they're huge, and as a percentage, their variations can really amount to something significant, but with something in the 525cc range and under, and in relevant terms, isn't there inherently more tolerance for a larger deviation such that we don't even need that level of accuracy? is it REALLY going to make tuning THAT much better? Or should I say, is it better enough to warrant a noticeable return on the extra $170 for the ID's? I know you get what you pay for, but I just don't want to pay for something I'll never really use, IF that is the case.
I'm running ID1000's and the car idles flawlessly
#73
In my hast this morning to get some injectors I made an offer on a set of ID 725's from seller awd_motorsports on ebay and they accepted it just a few minutes ago. $450 shipped for them so I at least saved $30 on them. Guess there is no going back now lol.
I also got an email response from Injector Dynamics regarding using the 725 for my application that I will share.
I also got an email response from Injector Dynamics regarding using the 725 for my application that I will share.
Hi James,
Thanks for your inquiry. At this time we do not have any plans to offer any lower flowing injectors, but we are confident that you will find the ID725s to be perfect for your application. While they will have the capability to provide more fuel than you will need, there will be no disadvantage to running a relatively large injector. The fact that they are matched to within +- 1%, along with the proper dead-time data means that they will behave as good (if not better than) the stock injectors. (I owned a BP powered Miata for about 7 years). Running them at a lower duty cycle will meant that they have an easy life. If the MegaSquirt has the ability to adjust the end-of-injection timing (or injection angle) there may actually be some power to be picked up. If you have any additional questions, please don't hesitate to let me know. You are also welcome to contact me directly at xxx-xxx-xxxx ext xxx
Andrew Campbell
Thanks for your inquiry. At this time we do not have any plans to offer any lower flowing injectors, but we are confident that you will find the ID725s to be perfect for your application. While they will have the capability to provide more fuel than you will need, there will be no disadvantage to running a relatively large injector. The fact that they are matched to within +- 1%, along with the proper dead-time data means that they will behave as good (if not better than) the stock injectors. (I owned a BP powered Miata for about 7 years). Running them at a lower duty cycle will meant that they have an easy life. If the MegaSquirt has the ability to adjust the end-of-injection timing (or injection angle) there may actually be some power to be picked up. If you have any additional questions, please don't hesitate to let me know. You are also welcome to contact me directly at xxx-xxx-xxxx ext xxx
Andrew Campbell
#75
At what point is a ID725 too big? I am aiming for the 150-155whp range with my new build.
Well, it should actually be a 175 range but I am detuning the top end for a flat power band because class is power/weight lmited.
excuse my ignorance and laziness to read this whole thread that is another language too me anyways.
Well, it should actually be a 175 range but I am detuning the top end for a flat power band because class is power/weight lmited.
excuse my ignorance and laziness to read this whole thread that is another language too me anyways.
#77
ID and FIC are selling matched EV14 injectors, the EV14 represent a jump in injector technology. You should see better performance with those injectors over the RX7.
I installed a set of FIC 900's and the car idles perfectly. FIC also gives you a data sheet on your specific injectors to aid in tuning.
I installed a set of FIC 900's and the car idles perfectly. FIC also gives you a data sheet on your specific injectors to aid in tuning.
#79
Umm, I would guess around 3x too much. But if you're going aftermarket EMS and or planning turbo later on, then get them. They should run as well or if not better than stock injectors. But if you're not planning on turbo or aftermarket EMS, then stock injectors would work just fine.
Actually I see no reason to go bigger than stock if you never plan on going turbo. But that's just my opinion.
Actually I see no reason to go bigger than stock if you never plan on going turbo. But that's just my opinion.
#80
This handy page here has a formula you can use to determine what size injectors you need for a specific HP target: Fuel Injectors - Miata Turbo FAQ
In short, yes, 725cc injectors are overkill for 150WHP. I made ~250WHP on 550s. If you want headroom for more power later, then it's not a bad idea.
In short, yes, 725cc injectors are overkill for 150WHP. I made ~250WHP on 550s. If you want headroom for more power later, then it's not a bad idea.