IM dyno comparo: VICS vs VTCS vs Flat-top (EUDM) - Page 2 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 12-18-2011, 11:36 PM   #21
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Here's an interesting article on intake manifold design. It would be cool to find out what a gutted VICS volume is.

http://amsperformance.com/pdfs/intakemani.pdf
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Old 12-19-2011, 12:33 PM   #22
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Volumes of MSM and JDM mani here:
http://www.mazdaspeedy.com/2010/03/2...-vtcs-msm.html

Gutting the horizontal wall above butterflies in VICS mani has no effect on butterfly closed nor open positions, compared to stock.
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Old 12-23-2011, 07:27 PM   #23
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Yes operational, at 5400 RPM. I find 5600 RPM the "correct" point when RPMs are slowly rising. If RPMs are rising rapidly a lower switch point is better.
...yes but if RPMs are slowly rising, either power is not your concern at the moment or your tune sucks. :P

In calibrating lots of VICS N/A & FI engines, 5400 is a fat sweet spot for *most*.
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Old 12-24-2011, 04:54 AM   #24
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Ahh... Finally someone did the dyno comparison. Great work.
I have a spare flattop lying around...
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Old 03-19-2012, 04:35 PM   #25
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Reviving this not so old thread:
pretty sure I've seen someone post on here that the 99-00 and 01-05 IM's are completely interchangeable, but can't find that thread/post.

Can anyone confirm this?

Looking to fit a 99 VICS mani onto an 01, and want to make sure its 100% do-able without throwing any CEL's or having fitment issues.
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Old 03-19-2012, 04:52 PM   #26
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They are interchangeable, however if you're running the stock ECU you'll probably get a CEL & will likely have poor cold start drivability. Plus, you'll have to set up a way to run the VICS or it's pointless.

FYI if you're running a turbo check this thread at M.net out.
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Old 03-19-2012, 05:08 PM   #27
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That basically confirms that vtcs mani sucks dongs and should be swapped out asap.
I'm planning on switching to a Honda mani in the future, but for now considering running the vics since I have a spare 99 mani laying around. So from what you're saying it wont simply "swap over" with a stock ecu?
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Old 03-19-2012, 05:23 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by codrus View Post
FM's tried this a couple times (including yesterday, according to the thread on miata.net) with a VICS manifold and seen no improvement. That was in an NA engine, not a turbo one, but it shouldn't matter.

--Ian

Ian, turbo engine at 10-15psi flows a lot more than a NA engine, how doesn't that matter?

On a side note how about cutting and enlarging the top of the vics intake manifold some more? One more thing, the stock runners on the vics manifold are good for 3-5k rpm, I'd assume cutting the primary runners some more to make them shorter over all would raise that range a bit?

Last edited by triple88a; 03-19-2012 at 05:36 PM.
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Old 03-19-2012, 05:37 PM   #29
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18 - already tried removing the VTCS butterflies in the 01+ mani?
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Old 03-19-2012, 05:50 PM   #30
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No. I can if that's the route I decide to take, but looking at these plots of one gutted vs the vics and flattop, it seems like its almost not worth even wasting time on the vtcs mani altogether.
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Old 03-19-2012, 06:14 PM   #31
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Quote:
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That basically confirms that vtcs mani sucks dongs and should be swapped out asap.
I'm planning on switching to a Honda mani in the future, but for now considering running the vics since I have a spare 99 mani laying around. So from what you're saying it wont simply "swap over" with a stock ecu?
I suppose if you left the VTCS solenoid plugged in & tied out of the way it wouldn't throw a CEL. If you had a Hydra you'd be GTG.

Over the years I've learned that VICS works, use it.
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Old 03-19-2012, 06:17 PM   #32
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Quote:
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Ian, turbo engine at 10-15psi flows a lot more than a NA engine, how doesn't that matter?

On a side note how about cutting and enlarging the top of the vics intake manifold some more? One more thing, the stock runners on the vics manifold are good for 3-5k rpm, I'd assume cutting the primary runners some more to make them shorter over all would raise that range a bit?
My theory is that it's not worth the effort, and here's why.
a) We know it makes zero difference N/A.
b) N/A is effected by VE changes where FI really isn't.
c) While gutting it may affect VE, it does not change the fact that your throttle body & your intake runner sizes are not changed a bit.
d) Therefore, I theorize that it won't make a bit of difference on a FI car except if you like adding mods to your mod sheet.
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Old 03-19-2012, 06:21 PM   #33
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/\ I am of the same mindset, though have don't have much proof of this theory (but neither do like 99% of us discussing this). A bottleneck in the intake is more significant than a bottleneck in the ehxaust IMO, and I'm not sure simply enlarging the plenum while keeping stock tb and runners will do much (on top of what the VICS already does). But again, intake mani resonance, waves, etc etc all that isht is over my head....I just know the basics
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Old 03-19-2012, 06:30 PM   #34
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Fwiw i measured plenum volume of my gutted 99 im and it was 2.3L not including runnaz.
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Old 03-19-2012, 06:30 PM   #35
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lazy dumb idea:

extrude hone the 01 intake manifold.

leave the VTCS in place. yeah sure so what if they dont "fit" anymore, they are already designed to not seal when closed. Use them just to raise port velocity when off-boost.
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Old 03-19-2012, 06:32 PM   #36
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Are you still on the completely stock 01 mani y8s?

And Fae: you threw the 99 vics mani onto your 03 right? did it change anything before you hogged it out, and did you do any modification to it before said gutting?
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Old 03-19-2012, 06:34 PM   #37
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Matt, D.C. must be clogging your brain. You're suggesting ideas that cost a lot of money, but don't actually improve anything! :P
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Old 03-19-2012, 11:01 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
Are you still on the completely stock 01 mani y8s?
uhhh yah.



Quote:
Originally Posted by usd2bfst View Post
Matt, D.C. must be clogging your brain. You're suggesting ideas that cost a lot of money, but don't actually improve anything! :P
uhhh also yah. and also I wasn't volunteering to pay for it. I heard good rumors of some aftermarket honda manifolds being decent performers.

BUT if you want to look all OEM (with a turbo, yeah I don't know how that works), it's the way to rock.
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Old 03-19-2012, 11:05 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
Are you still on the completely stock 01 mani y8s?

And Fae: you threw the 99 vics mani onto your 03 right? did it change anything before you hogged it out, and did you do any modification to it before said gutting?
Plugged up vics hole. Hit with hammer. "Extrude honed" the ever living ---- out of it until we saw daylight. Covered holes with paper mache and beeswax.



Attached Thumbnails
IM dyno comparo:  VICS vs VTCS vs Flat-top (EUDM)-dfdj0.jpg   IM dyno comparo:  VICS vs VTCS vs Flat-top (EUDM)-mjxke.jpg  
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Old 03-20-2012, 12:34 AM   #40
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How about completely cutting the top part and putting on a semicylindrical piece on there? The transition from the TB to the plenum is NASTY.
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