IM dyno comparo: VICS vs VTCS vs Flat-top (EUDM) - Page 4 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Engine Performance This section is for discussion on all engine building related questions.
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 04-19-2013, 11:42 AM   #61
Murderator
iTrader: (76)
 
18psi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 36,197
Total Cats: 2,584
Default

Seems like all the midrange differences are 3500-4500, and all the topend 6000+

Pretty cool set of comparos, really helps to have them all laid out together like that.
18psi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 11:43 AM   #62
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,896
Total Cats: 1,792
Default

lol at the 2871 tq curve.
Braineack is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 11:56 AM   #63
Former Vendor
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 128
Total Cats: 2
Default

Here's the FM2R car vs. a MSM Hydra with bolt-ons. You can see how un-awesome the IHI is, for what it is.


And the FM2R car vs. our shop 1999 FM2 (on a stock engine) car.


Sorry to stray, but the more comparitive info the better.
Attached Thumbnails
IM dyno comparo:  VICS vs VTCS vs Flat-top (EUDM)-jolly%2520vs%2520bertoldo.jpg   IM dyno comparo:  VICS vs VTCS vs Flat-top (EUDM)-2871r%2520vs%25202560r.jpg  
usd2bfst is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 11:59 AM   #64
Murderator
iTrader: (76)
 
18psi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 36,197
Total Cats: 2,584
Default

If you're posting dyno plots no one's gonna complain. We love dyno plots around here
18psi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 12:10 PM   #65
Elite Member
iTrader: (9)
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Livonia, Michigan
Posts: 5,684
Total Cats: 10
Default

I read hussie's post about his VICS manifold being held zip ties. i swapped a 99 motor with vics to my POS and I sure don't have any solenoids controlling the opening or closing of the butterfly on the plenum. I am assuming that the actuator in the front of the manifold does not close or open the butterfly, therefore the butterfly should always be open and that's good for power in the upper range of the rpm, right?
buffon01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 12:12 PM   #66
Murderator
iTrader: (76)
 
18psi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 36,197
Total Cats: 2,584
Default

yes. but you really want to hook up the vics and help your midrange torque
18psi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 12:17 PM   #67
Elite Member
iTrader: (9)
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Livonia, Michigan
Posts: 5,684
Total Cats: 10
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
yes. but you really want to hook up the vics and help your midrange torque
Now that you mention that I definitely feel that my older setup (95 1.8) was quicker before hitting full boost. Any links to a "vics solenoid for dummies" thread?
buffon01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 12:27 PM   #68
Destroyer of Inconel
iTrader: (37)
 
EO2K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In ur driveway, abusin' ur WPA
Posts: 9,642
Total Cats: 954
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by buffon01 View Post
Now that you mention that I definitely feel that my older setup (95 1.8) was quicker before hitting full boost. Any links to a "vics solenoid for dummies" thread?
https://www.miataturbo.net/diy-turbo...how-add-72249/
EO2K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 12:31 PM   #69
Murderator
iTrader: (76)
 
18psi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 36,197
Total Cats: 2,584
Default

yes. Brain just made one yesterday

*edit: G beat me to it
18psi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 12:33 PM   #70
Former Vendor
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 128
Total Cats: 2
Default

If you have VICS you should absolutely hook it up- it works. My default cross is 5400 RPM in the turbo cars. Dyno one run on, one off, set where the lines cross.

FWIW, VICS wired "on" = VTCS. IOW a loss of top end.
usd2bfst is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 12:52 PM   #71
Elite Member
iTrader: (9)
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Livonia, Michigan
Posts: 5,684
Total Cats: 10
Default

Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
yes. Brain just made one yesterday

*edit: G beat me to it
You're slow

Quote:
Originally Posted by usd2bfst View Post
If you have VICS you should absolutely hook it up- it works.

Great something else to add to the list of what to do. However I remember taking the solenoid (which I didn't know what it was atm) and placing somewhere I don't recall and then moving. With that said I may have lost it along with the valve check. Hopefully I'll sort these parts and add some win to my car over the summer
buffon01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 01:08 PM   #72
Elite Member
iTrader: (3)
 
concealer404's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 8,465
Total Cats: 783
Default

Hey Jeremy just for giggles 'n' *****, can you overlay my last pull on your dyno with my MSM? I'm pretty sure i made 238wtq @ 3800rpms...

It was the last-minute deal on the car i picked up in California the day before on my way home in late July 2011.
concealer404 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 01:28 PM   #73
Former Vendor
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 128
Total Cats: 2
Default

Sure, which do you want me to overlay it against?
usd2bfst is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 01:29 PM   #74
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,896
Total Cats: 1,792
Default

Hooking it up was so easy it hurt.
Braineack is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 01:33 PM   #75
Junior Member
iTrader: (9)
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: SFBay
Posts: 339
Total Cats: 39
Default

Wait, so any comments whether flat top is better than VICS on a completely stock Miata?

I do appreciate the dyno graphs though
scenturion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 01:33 PM   #76
Elite Member
iTrader: (3)
 
concealer404's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 8,465
Total Cats: 783
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by usd2bfst View Post
Sure, which do you want me to overlay it against?
Igor i suppose. I'm agonizing over whether or not it's worth swapping this setup out as long as i'm on the stock motor. Gut feeling says "no."

Actually i just remembered there was some funkiness with the last 245whp/238wtq pull, though. If that one doesn't look completely terrible then i'd like to see it, otherwise the 2nd to last one is fine.

Bonus points if you can show what kpa/psi the run was at.

Thank you!
concealer404 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 01:54 PM   #77
Murderator
iTrader: (76)
 
18psi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 36,197
Total Cats: 2,584
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by scenturion View Post
Wait, so any comments whether flat top is better than VICS on a completely stock Miata?
supposedly the flattop flows enough additional air that your stock computer won't be able to compensate and you'll lean out
18psi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 02:09 PM   #78
Junior Member
iTrader: (9)
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: SFBay
Posts: 339
Total Cats: 39
Default

Really? I would have expected the MAF would be able to account for extra flow.
Anyways, the car in question is a 99 with intake, BP5A cam, 01+ exhaust. Just trying to decide whether to keep the VICS manifold or install the squaretop I have.
I understand I'm probably the only person trying to install it onto a mostly stock Miata
scenturion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 02:30 PM   #79
I'm Miserable!
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 203
Total Cats: 8
Default

Just think about the location of the MAF.

I would say save up some money to get a standalone. With the standalone + Squaretop, you'll get a nice bump in HP and Tq.
GAMO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 02:31 PM   #80
Destroyer of Inconel
iTrader: (37)
 
EO2K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In ur driveway, abusin' ur WPA
Posts: 9,642
Total Cats: 954
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
supposedly the flattop flows enough additional air that your stock computer won't be able to compensate and you'll lean out
I can't for the life of me remember where I saw this (probably m.net) but BP5A cam + squaretop + RB or NB2 OEM header + BP4W ECU = lean up top.

I saw it as a statement, I never saw any sort of data or log to back it up. It makes sense though, WOT goes open loop and the stock ECU probably can't compensate.

It would be nice to get some hard data, this is why most of these parts are still sitting in my garage.
EO2K is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Why dynos should plot Torque divided by MAP JasonC SBB ECUs and Tuning 11 10-27-2015 05:56 PM
Time to start learning and play with tuning The Gleas MEGAsquirt 3 10-01-2015 10:30 AM
DIYPNP problem PA0 VICS output spidy MEGAsquirt 7 09-24-2015 04:14 PM
1.8, C30-74 Rotrex, 9psi, 235WHP/190WTQ (E85) Lincoln Logs Dynos and timesheets 4 09-23-2015 01:26 PM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:16 PM.