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K series Miata swap

Old 03-19-2013, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
FTB: a lone K hating crusader in a K loving world.



Drove the TSX today just for kicks. Seriously: the torque curve this thing produces would actually be a ton of fun in a miata.

I popped the hood yesterday and was sizing everything up. IMHO this isn't going to be a very easy swap. At least it looked like a PITA to me with all the bells and whistles bolted to it. (though I bet you guys will delete nearly all the accessories)
I'm open minded about it. I've driven a few K equipped cars and didn't love it. I'm not sure if it was the drive by wire or what but not a big fan. I'm with FTB on this until I've had a ride in a swapped k (honda) miata. I'm perfectly happy with the power output and reliability of my car. I don't live in the race world like sav and emillo though so it means significantly less to me. I have driven a boosted s2k and liked it. I'm much more experienced with 4G64, 1j, 2j stuff so I tend to lean towards the more tq heavy stuff for my driving preference.
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Old 03-19-2013, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by doward View Post

TTB Miata for 2014:
K swap
Xida
GTC 250
225/45 A6

......
Expect an 11.5:1 lb/hp ratio. It's highly unlikely you'll be able to run more than 200whp and run B.
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Old 03-19-2013, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by hustler View Post
Expect an 11.5:1 lb/hp ratio. It's highly unlikely you'll be able to run more than 200whp and run B.
Shooting for ST3/TT3 with this build. TTB wouldn't allow you to realize the full potential of the swap.
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Old 03-19-2013, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by aCab View Post
Shooting for ST3/TT3 with this build. TTB wouldn't allow you to realize the full potential of the swap.
That's a winning combo I think.
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.. since all the manufacturers list a 8.5 inch wheel max. That's a 1.5 inch stretch, are you really OK with that?
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Old 03-19-2013, 04:10 PM
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I saw a K motor in a gutted Civic run high 11's on the motor at a Nopi event years ago. I am pretty sure the motor had a stock bottom and stock cam. At most the RSX model was just a few years old, so I doubt there was much of an aftermarket support at the time.

The class it was racing in would not allow aftermarket ECUs, but I am pretty sure you were allowed to modify the stock one. It was impressive.

Edit: Actually now that I think about it, you had to run a stock 'style' intake manifold. You may have been allowed to run an aftermarket ECU. It was a while ago.

The car did have the factory intake manifold. That I remember.
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Old 03-19-2013, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by miata2fast View Post
I saw a K motor in a gutted Civic run high 11's on the motor at a Nopi event years ago. I am pretty sure the motor had a stock bottom and stock cam. At most the RSX model was just a few years old, so I doubt there was much of an aftermarket support at the time.

The class it was racing in would not allow aftermarket ECUs, but I am pretty sure you were allowed to modify the stock one. It was impressive.

Edit: Actually now that I think about it, you had to run a stock 'style' intake manifold. You may have been allowed to run an aftermarket ECU. It was a while ago.

The car did have the factory intake manifold. That I remember.
Yeah, Mikey at Profunction (same guy that tuned both of my K setups) had a 92 hatch, full metal and glass, with a stock K20A with cams, ported OEM manifold and 70mm throttle body. He was running 11.5s all day in it. Made 237whp if I recall. This was a number of years ago, and on a stock 2.0L bottom end. Things have certainly progressed since then.
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Old 03-19-2013, 05:10 PM
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Not really related, but does contain K24 content.

https://www.miataturbo.net/media-53/...y-civic-68565/

Don't get me wrong, I'm a believer. Easily one of the fastest cars I've ever been in. But it sure as hell ain't cheap.
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Old 03-19-2013, 05:17 PM
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I see FTB made his best effort at passing a peach pit on his way to a huge steaming dump in that thread as well.
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Old 03-19-2013, 05:25 PM
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I just have to chime in with dumb questions (based on one specific case, restricted by alien (non US) rules)

Would it be possible to keep the plenum and move the TB to the front. This while still calling it "stockish"? 190bhp in the local spec meaning 950kg min in the class I'm thinking about would be sweet (convincing the scrutineer that the moved TB doesn't affect output is another story).

Welding is always possible... But will the TB end up in a suitable place (close to the Miata PS pump location I assume), is the plenum a simple one (just a box or full with runners and ****),...?

A sump allowing unmodified subframe/steering would help a lot. Additional $2k for a true "drop-in" would be great value.
I'd think a custom oil solution would be more appealing than a custom subframe (if the price is similar).
I write this without knowing squat if the K can clear the stock subframe at all regardless of pan.
Attached Thumbnails K series Miata swap-honda-k24a3.jpg  
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Old 03-19-2013, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
FTB: a lone K hating crusader in a K loving world.

This has nothing to do with me hating the K-series mysticism, even if this thread is heavily infected with it.

If the F20C and F22C1 didnt exist, I would think this was a pretty good idea, regardless of how complex and expensive it may be. But when there is an all around superior engine available and has the added benefit of not requiring a transmission adaptation, then Im going to call a K24 swap what it is, retarded.

Last edited by Full_Tilt_Boogie; 03-21-2013 at 02:12 PM.
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Old 03-19-2013, 06:23 PM
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^^^You do know I am planning on making this a racecar, right? And that I currently have an s2000 that almost beat Crusher this year at NASA Nationals in TTC, right? (Emilio would have handed that one to me though, not going out in the last session). I've never owned a fwd car or any other Honda, and I don't consider myself a Honda guy. Please, get off the idea that the F20/F22 is a better swap than the K24. It's not. I own an F22. Its a good motor. The K24 is better. Plain and simple. Maybe not in stock form, but since when did the MT crowd think that stock motors were cool? We aren't spinning this motor to 10k. We have a lot more experience than you are giving us and we also have put a lot more thought into this swap than you seem to think.

We're going to do it even if you think its cool or not. A lot of people here seem to agree that this is better than an F20/F22. You're just wasting your time. This is happening, nothing you post is going to make us change our minds.

If you think it's such a bad idea, Id love you see you build an ST3/TT3 Miata with whatever motor you'd like and come out and race Emilio and I. I can see that likely won't happen though.

This is a purpose build racecar, not some Honda Mad Tight JDM yo project that some young punk kids are building. Hate on if if you must, but I'm not going to waste my time arguing with you. I have 14 points in two years. You can tell I look a lot, but only reserve my comments for when they are fully needed.
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Old 03-19-2013, 06:29 PM
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Fair enough.

I still disagree about the F20/22 vs K24, Id rather have a better head, better oiling system, better rod ratio, and better bore/stroke than have an extra 400cc and VVT on the intake cam. But, whatever.
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Old 03-19-2013, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Full_Tilt_Boogie View Post
Fair enough.

I still disagree about the F20/22 vs K24, Id rather have a better head, better oiling system, better rod ratio, and better bore/stroke than have an extra 400cc and VVT on the intake cam. But, whatever.
Can you shut the **** up about it and let us continue with the thread?
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Originally Posted by codrus View Post
Basically I've come over to the camp of "If something is a reliability problem on the track, just ask Andrew and do what he says".
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Old 03-19-2013, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Savington View Post
Can you shut the **** up about it and let us continue with the thread?
wow... never seen you swear before
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Old 03-19-2013, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by ctdrftna View Post
wow... never seen you swear before
I'm feeling a little aggro today
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Originally Posted by codrus View Post
Basically I've come over to the camp of "If something is a reliability problem on the track, just ask Andrew and do what he says".
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Old 03-19-2013, 07:22 PM
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i would like to know what is going to be done about the manifold, and also fuel system, i assume we can use hard tube fittings and run AN to a billet rail. But will there be a custom header made, something along the lines of AN-R,Bisimoto,Hytech ?? if i do this swap im doing kinsler itb's so im not worried about intake
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Old 03-19-2013, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by ctdrftna View Post
i would like to know what is going to be done about the manifold, and also fuel system, i assume we can use hard tube fittings and run AN to a billet rail. But will there be a custom header made, something along the lines of AN-R,Bisimoto,Hytech ?? if i do this swap im doing kinsler itb's so im not worried about intake
This will all be basic K swap stuff, we will post pics when we get there. Thankfully the K has tons of support for this stuff.

Also we will be using an S2000 manifold on the initial setup. Couple other options being tossed around this should be cheap and meet our power goals for now.
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Old 03-19-2013, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by TurboTim View Post
This swap sounds pretty slick for the reasons the OP mentioned, mild turbo BP power with honda reliability and RPM, lighter weight than V8 (or BP & turbo) without the additional requirements of trans/driveshaft/rear diff upgrades. The same reasons the NA Mazda K series swap kit is a great idea, which should be cheaper and would be the same amount of work except you can use the original subframe if needed. But this honda option will give you the benefits & complications of 20 years of valve control advancement.
Im liking this.

and the honda swap decisions decisions
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Old 03-19-2013, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Savington View Post
Can you shut the **** up about it and let us continue with the thread?
Whatever douche
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Old 03-19-2013, 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Full_Tilt_Boogie View Post
Whatever douche
Only douche here is you, if you're not interested in the subject don't come in the thread, if you're of the opinion the K motor is a failure then the thread title should've warded you off.


Watching this build with interest, less weight than a BP and BP turbo power is win in my book.

My only concerns are issues for RHD miatas.
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