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Old 09-22-2010, 11:31 PM   #1
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Any advice would be great. I will try to be as detailed as possible. Long story short my car is in the shop and will not start properly. It ran before I dropped it off at the shop here is what was done:

-Flipside Custom Intake manifold w/70MM TB
-272/272 Kelford Cams (I think is the problem)
-Whole new turbo kit

They went to start it and all they kept hearing was a popping sound and wouldn't fully turn over and start. I am assuming it has something to do with the cams, I was thinking even with the cam swap the car should still start? Does anyone have any clues? The builder said the cams where a simple swap over, is there anything more to installing cams? They said they checked valve clearance it was good, and the cam position sensor was also good.

Does this image apply to B6 motors? Could this be the problem?
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Old 09-23-2010, 12:39 AM   #2
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Reply removed 'cos it was dumb
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Old 09-23-2010, 12:44 AM   #3
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quoted BCar - ninja edit got me...
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Old 09-23-2010, 12:57 AM   #4
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all cams line up like that man if your **** is not lined up like that then it is wrong.
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Old 09-23-2010, 12:58 AM   #5
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Well I don't even know IF that is the reason, I have to check tomorrow. But what are my other possibilities for the car popping and not turning over other than the cams not being lined up?
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Old 09-23-2010, 01:13 AM   #6
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you cam GEARS are lined up, but are the cams themselves properly aligned within the gears? The little nub should be slotted in the "I" on the intake side, and the "E" on the exhaust side. Please confirm your crank is positioned correctly with respect to the cam gears as well.
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Old 09-23-2010, 01:22 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fooger03 View Post
you cam GEARS are lined up, but are the cams themselves properly aligned within the gears? The little nub should be slotted in the "I" on the intake side, and the "E" on the exhaust side. Please confirm your crank is positioned correctly with respect to the cam gears as well.
This is your problem. I had the same issue on my car.

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Old 09-23-2010, 11:27 AM   #8
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^^ Can you send the full photo, thanks for all the help, hopefully this is the problem.
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Old 09-23-2010, 01:39 PM   #9
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^^ Can you send the full photo, thanks for all the help, hopefully this is the problem.
Thats the bast picture I have. My mspaint skills are not that great.

What you need to do is make sure that the knock pin on each cam is pointing up and then put the cam gear on. If you have either cam gear off 120degrees the car will not start even though timing looks like it is perfect.
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Old 09-23-2010, 01:51 PM   #10
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I'd be seriously worried about a shop that cannot even install camshafts in the correct orientation.
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Old 09-23-2010, 01:56 PM   #11
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Ouch.
I think shuiend hit the nail on the head: it sounds like your cam gears are not properly aligned with the cams.
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Old 09-23-2010, 03:01 PM   #12
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Well just got back from the shop, he said everything is correct on the cams they marked them before they installed them etc. He said the car is having problems with erratic spark and it could be the AEM EMS because it has been sitting so long and it could have lost it's previous tune. I sent them my tune and hopefully this will fix the problem, if not I don't know what I will do. Anyways, here is a picture of the motor from today, at least it looks nice
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Old 09-23-2010, 03:20 PM   #13
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Did they put a timing light on it? I bet they didn't.
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Old 09-23-2010, 03:35 PM   #14
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That pic looks like the intake cam is off (advanced) a tooth...but I digress.

Blaming the engine management after touching mechanicals is surefire bullshit. You diagnose what you've changed...and work from there.

If they've properly set timing and can show you that, and the cam timing is 100% (nice that they've already buttoned it up), then start checking tunage.

After two motor swaps, and getting this car going on three different ECUs I can tell you they are finicky, and your cams and ignition timing have to be spot on for a fresh fire, especially how fast gas goes bad.
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Old 09-23-2010, 03:58 PM   #15
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You drove it to them on the new COP setup right? So we know for sure that the AEM and them are playing nice setting wise and whatnot.
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Old 09-23-2010, 07:23 PM   #16
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Belt looks correct. And I agree that it sounds like exactly the same symptoms Lars had with misaligned cams. With the motor at TDC and the timing marks aligned properly, look at the cam lobes. If I'm not mistaken the valves on #1 cylinder should all be shut, with the lobes on both cams pointing outwards from center.

Also in your pic right by the CAS is an unplugged connector. Is that something useless like a factory EGR pigtail, or something more important?
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Old 09-23-2010, 07:25 PM   #17
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A tune doesn't "erase" itself to the point of the car not starting.
They messed up something
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Old 09-23-2010, 07:40 PM   #18
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Belt looks correct. And I agree that it sounds like exactly the same symptoms Lars had with misaligned cams. With the motor at TDC and the timing marks aligned properly, look at the cam lobes. If I'm not mistaken the valves on #1 cylinder should all be shut, with the lobes on both cams pointing outwards from center.

Also in your pic right by the CAS is an unplugged connector. Is that something useless like a factory EGR pigtail, or something more important?
The lobes pointing outwards I believe is only for 1.8 motors. He has a 1.6 so I do not think that is correct.

I am still going with one of the cam gears is off.
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Old 09-23-2010, 07:54 PM   #19
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with cylinder 1 at TDC, both intake and exhaust valves should be closed - so, lobes should be pointing outward no matter what.

also, the OP picture is from m.net's garage section, and is accurate (at least in the half dozen timing belts I've done..)

spare connector near the cas looks like the o2 sensor, which would be gone from the wideband install.

My backseat wrenching suggestion - pop the valve cover, doublecheck the cam lobes are pointed outward with cylinder at TDC. Also do a compression test.

(and the first timing belt I did, 180 degrees backwards. Wasn't until I realized I was sucking from the exhaust manifold and wondering why my intake manifold was warm that I figured out how badly I had screwed the pooch)

Last edited by gooflophaze; 09-23-2010 at 08:07 PM.
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Old 09-23-2010, 11:03 PM   #20
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Quote:
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You drove it to them on the new COP setup right? So we know for sure that the AEM and them are playing nice setting wise and whatnot.
No, it was on stock coil set up with 8.5MM wires, they didn't try starting it on COPS they tried with stock ignition.

Yeah, I brought up the cams being done wrong and they keep insisting they didn't do anything wrong. I will have them take a picture of the cams and I will post it on here. Thanks for all your help guys, and that picture was for reference.
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