Miata LFX Swap (Singular Motorsports & Good-Win Racing)
11-22-2019, 11:49 AM
#1243
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Location: San Diego
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Our game plan is to do the proper full-on race car solution; a swirl pot style surge tank. That's what you'll see on many pro/factory race cars, and it's a step beyond the off the shelf surge tanks out there even. The heavy lifting is then done by an in-line pump post surge tank, and the in-tank pump is demoted to lift pump duty, which can be done by a simple DW300 which we know fits the pump fixture and factory style sock properly. If we have any issues testing that, then the only thing left to sort out is the in-tank pickup. I'm jumping on this project immediately so will have more to share/show soon.
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11-22-2019, 01:14 PM
#1246
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Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Northridge, CA
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I can't stand that "we looked at the data and had X:XX time in it.." BS, you ran what you ran.
In our case, slower than last year, but with lots of new stuff, zero testing time as-ran and many lessons learned.
We still managed 4th and every single one of the issues we encountered we know what to do with.
Better yet, the stuff that we did change, we have a pretty damn good idea what it's capable of once the issues are sorted out, and that's a great take away from this event.
I'm excited for COTA, this thing is going to boogie
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12-08-2019, 12:31 AM
#1254
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Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Livermore, CO
Posts: 193
Total Cats: 84
***edit- it was OEM sealed up to the failure
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12-11-2019, 05:31 PM
#1256
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Solving the fuel starvation under high G loads. Surge tank is needed, but the stuff on the market doesn't tick every box. I want a swirl-pot style surge tank. The energy of the fuel swirling inside the tank at least partially counteracts the G forces acting on the fuel, so there is much less sloshing, and it ensures every last bit of fuel makes it to the outlet until the tank is dry, unlike a more conventional surge tank that's just a tall static volume. So as it so often seems, the only way is to make it myself.
I hand cut a bunch of pieces:
The inlets and outlets have a shallow slant cut inside to shroud the in/out flow from the swirl flow in the tank:
Welding it all together:
Went with 1/4" NPT rather than AN so I have the flexibility to change hose size if desired down the road:
Finished tank:
Installed with AEM 400 in-line pump, Radium in-line filter, AEM high pressure regulator. Bracket against the forward bulkhead supports the tank since it will have a bit of weight to it once full of fuel.
Now with two fuel pumps, the external post-surge tank pump does the heavy lifting and the pump in the main tank is relegated to lift pump duty, so I've put a DW300 back in the main tank since that works properly with the pump fixture.
I added a second fuel pump circuit on the wiring side, with a dedicated fuse and relay. Relay is activated by the same fuel pump switch on the dash, so the single switch turns on both pumps, but if I need to troubleshoot one pump or the other I can pull the fuse for the other pump so I'm just activating one.
Dyno Friday to make sure it's all flowing as expected, then on to track testing.
The only issue here is ethanol will corrode aluminum over time. A bare aluminum tank would be OK for about one season. The tank needs to be anodized, but the inside can't be anodized if it's an enclosed tank. I want to make the top of the tank removable with a bolt-on cap, but that requires sealing the cap with an o-ring which means the cap piece needs to be cut either by CNC or waterjet and then have the o-ring groove done in a lathe, neither of which I have the ability to do here right this moment, and I wanted the tank done and start testing immediately. I have drawings off to the waterjet to get those bits made though, once they are done I'll cut the top off this tank and weld on the new flange that takes the new bolt-on cap, then get both pieces anodized.
I hand cut a bunch of pieces:
The inlets and outlets have a shallow slant cut inside to shroud the in/out flow from the swirl flow in the tank:
Welding it all together:
Went with 1/4" NPT rather than AN so I have the flexibility to change hose size if desired down the road:
Finished tank:
Installed with AEM 400 in-line pump, Radium in-line filter, AEM high pressure regulator. Bracket against the forward bulkhead supports the tank since it will have a bit of weight to it once full of fuel.
Now with two fuel pumps, the external post-surge tank pump does the heavy lifting and the pump in the main tank is relegated to lift pump duty, so I've put a DW300 back in the main tank since that works properly with the pump fixture.
I added a second fuel pump circuit on the wiring side, with a dedicated fuse and relay. Relay is activated by the same fuel pump switch on the dash, so the single switch turns on both pumps, but if I need to troubleshoot one pump or the other I can pull the fuse for the other pump so I'm just activating one.
Dyno Friday to make sure it's all flowing as expected, then on to track testing.
The only issue here is ethanol will corrode aluminum over time. A bare aluminum tank would be OK for about one season. The tank needs to be anodized, but the inside can't be anodized if it's an enclosed tank. I want to make the top of the tank removable with a bolt-on cap, but that requires sealing the cap with an o-ring which means the cap piece needs to be cut either by CNC or waterjet and then have the o-ring groove done in a lathe, neither of which I have the ability to do here right this moment, and I wanted the tank done and start testing immediately. I have drawings off to the waterjet to get those bits made though, once they are done I'll cut the top off this tank and weld on the new flange that takes the new bolt-on cap, then get both pieces anodized.
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12-17-2019, 09:54 AM
#1258
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Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Livermore, CO
Posts: 193
Total Cats: 84
His comments:
Ethanol is NOT corrosive to aluminum. It is often confused with Methanol that is VERY corrosive to aluminum. I think this comes from the fact that Ethanol contains a small bit of water from the production process and that bit of water eats away at steel parts adding to the confusion.
Not bringing it up to correct you, but to let you know that there is no need to go through the cost/labor of modifying your tank as it is. Outstanding work as always bud.
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12-17-2019, 10:06 AM
#1259
Just an FYI, this is one of those Internet myths and general misinformation about Ethanol. I have the advantage of having a father that is a protective coatings inspector and has almost every NACE certification ever developed. He corrected me on this very topic just a few months ago when I was installing my DeatschWorks surge tank and asked him if there was a hard line I could use from the main tank for "moving that nasty corrosive e85". Turns out aluminum is the best option because any steel alloy will eventually succumb to the moisture found in ethanol and there is no need for an oxidation coating like anodizing for aluminum.
His comments:
Ethanol is NOT corrosive to aluminum. It is often confused with Methanol that is VERY corrosive to aluminum. I think this comes from the fact that Ethanol contains a small bit of water from the production process and that bit of water eats away at steel parts adding to the confusion.
Not bringing it up to correct you, but to let you know that there is no need to go through the cost/labor of modifying your tank as it is. Outstanding work as always bud.
His comments:
Ethanol is NOT corrosive to aluminum. It is often confused with Methanol that is VERY corrosive to aluminum. I think this comes from the fact that Ethanol contains a small bit of water from the production process and that bit of water eats away at steel parts adding to the confusion.
Not bringing it up to correct you, but to let you know that there is no need to go through the cost/labor of modifying your tank as it is. Outstanding work as always bud.
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