thoughts on removing oil injectors? - Page 2 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Engine Performance This section is for discussion on all engine building related questions.
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-16-2010, 03:20 PM   #21
Murderator
iTrader: (76)
 
18psi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 36,186
Total Cats: 2,583
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by falcon View Post
You're negativity is kind of irritating me. Do some research on who this guy is, and then tell me he is dumb after. He chooses to run "dangerous" that's fine. AFAIK he also has build the highest HP 1.9L N/A in N. America just chooses not to flog it all over the internet.

Here, have a read.

http://clubroadster.net/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=18582

Relax.

No need to get your panties in a bunch.
If I hear a good explanation with proof of it being beneficial and not dangerous I might change my mind..
18psi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2010, 03:21 PM   #22
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (13)
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Fraser Valley, British Columbia
Posts: 2,502
Total Cats: 13
Default

Oh I'm relaxed, I just get annoyed when people are TRYING to be a dick.
falcon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2010, 03:22 PM   #23
Miotta FTW!
iTrader: (24)
 
Splitime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicagoland, IL
Posts: 4,295
Total Cats: 26
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by falcon View Post
That's not a 1.9L, that's a 1.7L . The 1.9L is in his personal car and is running 13:1 compression pistons. And that 150whp is on a dynapack.
A tip... don't mention one engine... and then link to another

Cost to power ratio of NA is just painful... especially in these old engines :P. Once again making me happy that I'm putting a better motor in my car
Splitime is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2010, 03:25 PM   #24
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (13)
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Fraser Valley, British Columbia
Posts: 2,502
Total Cats: 13
Default

Ya I know... lol I didn't realize that until after I posted. But it gives you an idea on how much of a perfectionist he is.

The whole NA vs. Turbo thing will never die, and that's not what this thread was about. But if you every have a chance to ride in a 180+whp N/A Miata... do it. It's a completly different feel from a turbo car, and one of the reasons I decided to go Rotrex instead of turbo.
falcon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2010, 03:29 PM   #25
Miotta FTW!
iTrader: (24)
 
Splitime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicagoland, IL
Posts: 4,295
Total Cats: 26
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by falcon View Post
Ya I know... lol I didn't realize that until after I posted. But it gives you an idea on how much of a perfectionist he is.

The whole NA vs. Turbo thing will never die, and that's not what this thread was about. But if you every have a chance to ride in a 180+whp N/A Miata... do it. It's a completly different feel from a turbo car, and one of the reasons I decided to go Rotrex instead of turbo.
He isn't doing anything that a normal good motor builder should do honestly. I see lots of measuring and such, but its all normal stuff.

I had an almost 200whp NA car... I like my turbo car just fine. Better powerband than I've seen from the charts on those miata motors also... the bonus of it being a Honda .
Splitime is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2010, 03:30 PM   #26
I'm Miserable!
iTrader: (11)
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Texas, 'Murica
Posts: 2,505
Total Cats: 7
Default

I think that would be retarded to remove oil squirters. For the reasons mentioned above. You go ahead and tear them out though. This seems to be mentioned alot on m.net. Which also makes me think it to be stupid.
chicksdigmiatas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2010, 03:31 PM   #27
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (13)
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Fraser Valley, British Columbia
Posts: 2,502
Total Cats: 13
Default

Ya hondas don't count...lol

And yes, he is "just another engine builder" but the reason I am using him is I know he has lots of experience with the engine and is very precise and I know it will be done right the first time . I'm not having a full build done, just bottom end and a valve/spring job. I am doing the rest.
falcon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2010, 03:32 PM   #28
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
 
fooger03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 4,132
Total Cats: 187
Default

Power loss due to pumping losses from the oil squirters? That's got to be some of the craziest BS I've heard, unless I'm completely missing something. If you remove the oil squirters, your oil pressure should be increased. An increase in oil pressure means that the engine is working harder to pump that oil through the engine. This would translate to less wheel power available if you *removed* the oil squirters.

But maybe I'm missing something?
fooger03 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2010, 03:32 PM   #29
Miotta FTW!
iTrader: (24)
 
Splitime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicagoland, IL
Posts: 4,295
Total Cats: 26
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by falcon View Post
Ya hondas don't count...lol

And yes, he is "just another engine builder" but the reason I am using him is I know he has lots of experience with the engine and is very precise and I know it will be done right the first time . I'm not having a full build done, just bottom end and a valve/spring job. I am doing the rest.
Simplest thing to do then... is if you trust his build knowledge... just defer to him. Not the peanut gallery here.

I've seen lots of arguments over the years to running them and not (on forged piston motors). Everyone had their own soapbox... no real data.
Splitime is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2010, 03:33 PM   #30
Murderator
iTrader: (76)
 
18psi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 36,186
Total Cats: 2,583
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by falcon View Post
Oh I'm relaxed, I just get annoyed when people are TRYING to be a dick.
TRYING implies that I didn't succeed
18psi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2010, 03:35 PM   #31
Elite Member
iTrader: (10)
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Seattle, Wa
Posts: 1,780
Total Cats: 30
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Splitime View Post
Cost to power ratio of NA is just painful... especially in these old engines :P.
Comparison of the motor in question versus my stock block 1.6 with a 57trim t3/t04e. I had roughly half the $$$ into my old setup.



Ouch.

For the record though, I can't rip on that car. It gets the JayL stamp of approval for being bad as ****. I'm simply comparing output.
Jeff_Ciesielski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2010, 03:37 PM   #32
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (13)
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Fraser Valley, British Columbia
Posts: 2,502
Total Cats: 13
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
TRYING implies that I didn't succeed

Yes, that is true ... but that's just how you roll.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splitime View Post
Simplest thing to do then... is if you trust his build knowledge... just defer to him. Not the peanut gallery here.

I've seen lots of arguments over the years to running them and not (on forged piston motors). Everyone had their own soapbox... no real data.
Exactly. There's a lot of "I don't think" on here. But so far no one who actually builds motors has chimed in. Which was the purpose of this thread. Not to get personal opinions.
falcon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2010, 03:39 PM   #33
Miotta FTW!
iTrader: (24)
 
Splitime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicagoland, IL
Posts: 4,295
Total Cats: 26
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by falcon View Post
Yes, that is true ... but that's just how you roll.


Exactly. There's a lot of "I don't think" on here. But so far no one who actually builds motors has chimed in. Which was the purpose of this thread. Not to get personal opinions.
I've built motors... but you just won't hear anything beyond opinions and hearsay.
Splitime is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2010, 03:41 PM   #34
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (13)
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Fraser Valley, British Columbia
Posts: 2,502
Total Cats: 13
Default

Yes, tis true. Didn't know you built motors...
falcon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2010, 03:43 PM   #35
Miotta FTW!
iTrader: (24)
 
Splitime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicagoland, IL
Posts: 4,295
Total Cats: 26
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by falcon View Post
Yes, tis true. Didn't know you built motors...
Building them does not mean I'm a shop and pro builder But yah, have built a few over the years.
Splitime is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2010, 06:24 PM   #36
Moderator
iTrader: (11)
 
sixshooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 15,669
Total Cats: 1,561
Default

If having oil squirters makes your oil hotter then they are doing their job by removing heat from the piston. Removing heat from the piston is far more important for reducing detonation in a forced induction engine than in a naturally aspirated one.

In a naturally aspirated engine that is sucking wind and fighting it's builder for every fraction of a horsepower I can see where a builder would want to lighten the fractions of ounces of oil present on the bottoms of the pistons or clinging to the cylinder walls needing to be removed by the oil control rings. But we are not those people. We have the benefit of technological advances made in the 1940s to force more air mass into our engines to overcome inefficiencies in engine design.

We have had enough threads regarding the uneven cooling and detonation issues in our engines to cause me not to desire the removal of items that may be beneficial to the cooling of my pistons when given the choice. Why tempt fate and take the chance? Is there a proven benefit that makes it equivalent or greater than the risk?

Did Mazda add unnecessary parts into our engines because they enjoy throwing away money? Aren't those longevity enhancing parts even more necessary when you demand more than twice the intended output from the same engine?

How many horsepower are you supposedly gaining from rolling the dice with your engine? One horsepower? One quarter horsepower? Why would that be worthwhile?

But it seems from your comments to other skeptics that you have made up your mind, so enjoy your squirterless engine and let us know how that works out.
sixshooter is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2010, 06:28 PM   #37
Elite Member
iTrader: (7)
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Gainesville,Fl
Posts: 3,354
Total Cats: 7
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sixshooter View Post
...But it seems from your comments to other skeptics that you have made up your mind, so enjoy your squirterless engine and let us know how that works out.
Well said sir.
turotufas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2010, 06:31 PM   #38
Murderator
iTrader: (76)
 
18psi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 36,186
Total Cats: 2,583
Default

Apparently we are not allowed to question someone doing something illogical due to them being a "top notch builder"
Next that builder will tell us he doesn't use intercoolers due to the weight gain and operating at 200* AIT's is perfectly "ok"
18psi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2010, 06:56 PM   #39
mkturbo.com
iTrader: (24)
 
shuiend's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Charleston SC
Posts: 13,776
Total Cats: 1,106
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
Apparently we are not allowed to question someone doing something illogical due to them being a "top notch builder"
Next that builder will tell us he doesn't use intercoolers due to the weight gain and operating at 200* AIT's is perfectly "ok"
Wait is Tom building his engine?
shuiend is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2010, 07:04 PM   #40
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,436
Total Cats: 58
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by falcon View Post
That's not a 1.9L, that's a 1.7L . The 1.9L is in his personal car and is running 13:1 compression pistons. And that 150whp is on a dynapack.
Me thinks you got a hard on for this dude.
Enginerd is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Project Gemini - Turbo Civic on the Cheap Full_Tilt_Boogie Build Threads 58 Yesterday 10:04 PM
OTS Bilstein to motorsports ASN conversion stoves Suspension, Brakes, Drivetrain 5 04-21-2016 04:00 PM
Changing from 460cc to flow force 610cc in diypnp 90 Turbo MEGAsquirt 19 10-19-2015 04:23 PM
Moroso Air Oil Separator Catch Can Aroundcorner Miata parts for sale/trade 2 10-01-2015 04:20 PM
Time to start learning and play with tuning The Gleas MEGAsquirt 3 10-01-2015 10:30 AM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:13 PM.