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Old 08-19-2013, 10:36 AM   #21
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Quote:
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Also, for say, a daily driven miata, why is it stupid? 500tq for 6000rpm straight, why not?

Dann
I would say its stupid because with just an EFR you can have 350ftlbs for 6000 rpms straight. And any more than that and you're really going to be looking for a transmission stronger than the 6 speed and a new rear end. Once you've gotten to the point of building the engine, this setup, putting in a non-miata tranny, a new rear end, different axles, blah blah blah you can have your 500ftlbs for elevently RPMs with a build LSx and have spent less money and be more reliable.
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Old 08-19-2013, 10:59 AM   #22
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So twin charging. The alcohol spray between the turbo and the blower might be ok. It will certainly cool the blower, just remember that if the rotors are coated that meth will slowly take the coating off.
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Old 08-19-2013, 11:04 AM   #23
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So twin charging. The alcohol spray between the turbo and the blower might be ok. It will certainly cool the blower, just remember that if the rotors are coated that meth will slowly take the coating off.
yeah i was thinking E85 but probably will have the same issues, I need to speak to some blower experts.

I could always run a cut down water to air, one of those barrel ones.

Dann
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Old 08-19-2013, 11:10 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by nitrodann View Post
yeah i was thinking E85 but probably will have the same issues, I need to speak to some blower experts.

I could always run a cut down water to air, one of those barrel ones.

Dann
I dont think e85 has that issue.
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Old 08-19-2013, 11:12 AM   #25
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I dont think e85 has that issue.
Either do I with my experience but theres a lot of BS around about its corrosiveness etc etc.

SC14s are cheap I might as well just run it that way till it ***** the bed.

I cant see any reason why this cannot be reliable.

Everyone agrees that an SC14 setup well engineered can be reliable, and everyone agrees that a turbo setup well engineered can be reliable, Apart from more HP and marginally more engine bay heat I dont see the issue really.

Assuming you can cool the charge.

Im ignoring drivetrain issues for the sake of this argument.

Dann
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Old 08-19-2013, 11:13 AM   #26
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Hmm Are you cooling the blower with anything at all? Also have you done any research on what should be first, the blower or the turbo?
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Old 08-19-2013, 11:14 AM   #27
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Edit... YES, e85 injection pre blower.

The turbo has to be before the blower otherwise the turbo wouldnt do anything.

Dann
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Old 08-19-2013, 11:16 AM   #28
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Yes i saw your mspaint sketch. Alright.
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Old 08-19-2013, 12:21 PM   #29
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thread cleaned of 18psi's v8 nutswinging. I warned him.

next time he swings nut, he wins a free vacation to notmiataturbo.net.
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Old 08-19-2013, 12:22 PM   #30
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Thanks (y8s i assume.)
EDIT:You ninjad me

Dann
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Old 08-20-2013, 12:44 PM   #31
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So Ive spoken to my machinist/exhaust component supplier and hes cool with me running whatever combo I want on his engine dyno whenever its not in use.

It simply has a hydraulic torque guage and a 5" tacho. Horsepower is calculated from video taken of both. This should be enough to please everyone for accuracy, if not, explain why.

So What Ill do is throw a stock BP on E85 on and run a few blower/turbo combos and try and learn a bit.

The real advantage of an engine dyno so far as I can see is you can build whatever manifold cooler etc designs with **** all effort time or cost because it doesnt have to fit inside an engine bay. No exhaust is required, you can use ginourmous W2A intercoolers etc

I have some T04s and an AirResearch M24 with a 75mm inducer on the coldside and closer to 90 on the hotside, as well as SC12 and 14's. So I guess I should start with stock, move to stock and try and spool the M24, then add the blower belt to help spool it and start doing pulls playing with pulleys.

Then go to the T04 or a GT35r and try and settle on something that will work nice in a car.

I will need a few AIT sensors and a fuel tank but I can build that, Ill just use an 044 and a surge tank.

From there move onto a built engine with hogged out ports and big valves.

Am I forgetting anything?

Dann
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Old 08-20-2013, 12:50 PM   #32
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Here is the big turbo I want to try. Im going to guess its 1200hp capable. It has a 4" compressor outlet.. I cannot imagine there is a lot of data of something like this used on a BP, Why not I figure.



Dann
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Twincharging, Serious discussion.-20130819_140502.jpg  
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Old 08-20-2013, 01:51 PM   #33
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When I looked into this a while ago I planned to blow the supercharger into the turbo. At some point when the turbo began to outflow the blower use the following to allow the turbo to get more air and essentially bypass the blower.

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Old 08-20-2013, 08:29 PM   #34
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Just to make boost control easier?

Dann
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Old 08-20-2013, 10:42 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nitrodann View Post
Just to make boost control easier?

Dann
No, its to bypass the blower once the turbo spools. I'm guessing his plans were to run it blower>turbo>engine
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Old 08-20-2013, 10:57 PM   #36
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I know that.

That setup negates compound boost.

So is it for boost control?
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Old 08-21-2013, 10:22 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by nitrodann View Post

This is interesting as it puts the turbo in a super high flow, not particularly high boost part of its compressor map.

Dann

I would assume it's so you don't get too far right of the compressor map.

Do you need compound boost with a GT35?
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Old 08-21-2013, 10:26 AM   #38
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No what Im saying is that it just happens to be at very high flow for the boost levels the turbo sees because of the effects of feeding into a blower.

You dont need compound boost with a GT35r but we are talking about having turbo small block torque at every RPM. Thats the point of the twincharging.

Dann
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Old 08-21-2013, 12:11 PM   #39
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If you put the blower between the turbo and the motor, to the turbo it looks like it's feeding a bigger displacement motor. Great for spoolup. Once you hit full boost, you then bypass the blower.

At that moment, the pressurized manifold air will rush out and fill the intake tract between the turbo and the intake manifold. I wonder what it will do

It's worth looking at the control systems used in factory and race team twincharged setups.
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Old 08-21-2013, 12:29 PM   #40
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If it went turbo > blower > engine, why bypass the blower? You can make moar boosts with the compound, 30psia (15psig) coming out of the turbo and going into a blower operating at a PR of 2 gives you 60psia (45psig) in the intake manifold.
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