DIY preliminary results
07-23-2007, 11:08 PM
#1
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DIY preliminary results
First off, thanks for all the info here!
Details:
91 chassis, 96 1.8, standalone ecu, T3/T4 eBay $139 churbo, eBay wastgate, eBay bov, markp's old manifold, full 3" exhaust, exhintake at 1°, no intercooler yet.
In the process of tuning but 5psi at 3k rpms is very exciting! I was expecting boost to come on between 4-4.5k but apparently the 3" exhaust is worth all the hassle.
Details:
91 chassis, 96 1.8, standalone ecu, T3/T4 eBay $139 churbo, eBay wastgate, eBay bov, markp's old manifold, full 3" exhaust, exhintake at 1°, no intercooler yet.
In the process of tuning but 5psi at 3k rpms is very exciting! I was expecting boost to come on between 4-4.5k but apparently the 3" exhaust is worth all the hassle.
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07-23-2007, 11:22 PM
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dhaark, it could be a bit further back. but it's just an el cheapo non heated nb sensor. you need it kinda close to the heat to stay warm. when it fails, it's a $16 item.
You want your wb sensor further away from a turbo.
You want your wb sensor further away from a turbo.
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07-24-2007, 12:13 AM
#7
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ECU is a Wolf 3DV4.
The eBay guys say that these are the specs:
Inlet 3"
Outlet 2"
Bearing Wet Floating Bearings
Oil Inlet 1/8 NPT Oil Inlet
Flange Standard T3/T4 Flange,
Swaps 350 WHP
Working Pressure: 25~30 PSI
Compressor .50 A/R Compressor
Turbine .63 A/R Turbine
Compressor Wheel .57 T Compressor Wheel
Exducer: 3"
Inducer:2"
Turbine Wheel Exducer: 2.2"
Inducer:2.58"
Hot Side .58 5 Bolt Standard Hot Side
I got lazy on the narrowband o2. I put it there because it was easy and I didn't have to spend 2 minutes extending the wire. You can see the wbo2 a bit further downstream.
I picked up a spare bashed hood for a six pack and did some Ben venting to it.
The setup isn't pretty but I'm hoping it will perform well. I autox twice a month and drag/bracket race every few months along with it being a daily driver. Pretty tall order.
The eBay guys say that these are the specs:
Inlet 3"
Outlet 2"
Bearing Wet Floating Bearings
Oil Inlet 1/8 NPT Oil Inlet
Flange Standard T3/T4 Flange,
Swaps 350 WHP
Working Pressure: 25~30 PSI
Compressor .50 A/R Compressor
Turbine .63 A/R Turbine
Compressor Wheel .57 T Compressor Wheel
Exducer: 3"
Inducer:2"
Turbine Wheel Exducer: 2.2"
Inducer:2.58"
Hot Side .58 5 Bolt Standard Hot Side
I got lazy on the narrowband o2. I put it there because it was easy and I didn't have to spend 2 minutes extending the wire. You can see the wbo2 a bit further downstream.
I picked up a spare bashed hood for a six pack and did some Ben venting to it.
The setup isn't pretty but I'm hoping it will perform well. I autox twice a month and drag/bracket race every few months along with it being a daily driver. Pretty tall order.
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07-24-2007, 10:46 AM
#11
I just use mild steel rod from the hard ware store. Support the exhaust with jackstands (I use the pipe/tube style with a hole drilled thru the outer sleeve and nut welded over the hole, then use a bolt to have infinite adjustablity). Then bend the rod as needed. Insert it through the rubber hanger, pull down hard and tack it to the exhaust. It makes for a good tight hung exhaust.
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07-24-2007, 11:10 AM
#12
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m2cupcar- I am patiently watching your intercooler and temp results! Yes, it's a 3" all the way. Mandrel bends from Summit Racing worked out great.
SloS13- I don't know if I want to admit what I used. The rubber and body mounts are stock. The steel 'hanger' that is welded to the exhaust at various points are either from other cars but are mostly big spikes that you buy at HD/Lowes. Put it in the vise, BFH it into a 90°, slip it through the isolator and weld it on.
Some notes:
Oil feed on the 96 1.8.
Removing the stock oil pressure sender was the single most difficult thing to do on this project as judged on the blood-o-meter. Remove the manifold brace then just grab the thing with channel locks if you don't have the right size socket (or if it is already smashed up a bit).
Drilling the oil pan.
Grease on the bit and tap, a couple of psi of air pressure in the valvetrain and it's all a piece of cake. I thought I was being smart by drilling the hole as high as possible (very close to the bottom of the AC bracket). It turned out to be too close to use AN fittings for everything. I JB Welded a barbed fitting and it was still a very tight squeeze to get the hose on. Don't drill the hole too high! It doesn't get you anything.
Fuel system.
I am feeding the rail from the back (#4) and returning from the front. Using an old Mallory 4309 regulator for control. It is 1:1.
Water oulet.
For those using the eBay manifold, there is a clearance issue with water outlet. I cut, rotated, welded the outlet to point more downward. The pictures look odd, but the clearance is great. Went to Advance Auto and got hose (D)71721 and it's a straight shot from the outlet to the lower radiator inlet.
Before:
After:
Installed:
Wastegate pipe:
Front shot no intercooler until I figure out what to do:
Ode to Ben hood:
Before:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...0723071621.jpg
After:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...0723071658.jpg
SloS13- I don't know if I want to admit what I used. The rubber and body mounts are stock. The steel 'hanger' that is welded to the exhaust at various points are either from other cars but are mostly big spikes that you buy at HD/Lowes. Put it in the vise, BFH it into a 90°, slip it through the isolator and weld it on.
Some notes:
Oil feed on the 96 1.8.
Removing the stock oil pressure sender was the single most difficult thing to do on this project as judged on the blood-o-meter. Remove the manifold brace then just grab the thing with channel locks if you don't have the right size socket (or if it is already smashed up a bit).
Drilling the oil pan.
Grease on the bit and tap, a couple of psi of air pressure in the valvetrain and it's all a piece of cake. I thought I was being smart by drilling the hole as high as possible (very close to the bottom of the AC bracket). It turned out to be too close to use AN fittings for everything. I JB Welded a barbed fitting and it was still a very tight squeeze to get the hose on. Don't drill the hole too high! It doesn't get you anything.
Fuel system.
I am feeding the rail from the back (#4) and returning from the front. Using an old Mallory 4309 regulator for control. It is 1:1.
Water oulet.
For those using the eBay manifold, there is a clearance issue with water outlet. I cut, rotated, welded the outlet to point more downward. The pictures look odd, but the clearance is great. Went to Advance Auto and got hose (D)71721 and it's a straight shot from the outlet to the lower radiator inlet.
Before:
After:
Installed:
Wastegate pipe:
Front shot no intercooler until I figure out what to do:
Ode to Ben hood:
Before:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...0723071621.jpg
After:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...0723071658.jpg
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07-24-2007, 11:34 AM
#13
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cool. hopefuly you'll have a ton of air rushing by the charge pipe, helping to cool it down.
something memorable from our SE dynoday was a 1.8 JRSC car with a crossover pipe sitting on the dyno. I smelled coolant after a pull, so I went in to look, just to make sure everything was OK. I happened to put my hand on the crossover (charge pipe) right by the TB. It was cool to the touch due to a tower fan blowing on it. The center part of the crossover pipe, that wasn't getting airflow, was HOT.
That was one reason why I was thinking that the vented hood should have two sets of vents. One vent behind the radiator to suck air through the radiator sandwiches up front, and a second set towards the windshield to draw air through TSI's and across the intake mani and turbo. I've noticed that my throttle body side charge pipe is cold to the touch after driving, but the intake manifold is burning hot. When I get some time, I am going to make that second set of vents and test the theory.
something memorable from our SE dynoday was a 1.8 JRSC car with a crossover pipe sitting on the dyno. I smelled coolant after a pull, so I went in to look, just to make sure everything was OK. I happened to put my hand on the crossover (charge pipe) right by the TB. It was cool to the touch due to a tower fan blowing on it. The center part of the crossover pipe, that wasn't getting airflow, was HOT.
That was one reason why I was thinking that the vented hood should have two sets of vents. One vent behind the radiator to suck air through the radiator sandwiches up front, and a second set towards the windshield to draw air through TSI's and across the intake mani and turbo. I've noticed that my throttle body side charge pipe is cold to the touch after driving, but the intake manifold is burning hot. When I get some time, I am going to make that second set of vents and test the theory.
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07-24-2007, 12:33 PM
#15
You know what happens to that manifold with just a dump tube off the external WG - right? 
My new IC cut my air temps in half. It also cut the time it took to get to the fan ON temp when stopping at a traffic light - and double the amount of time the fan was on when in stop-n-go traffic. Though the fan managed all this on 90f day- it was overcast. I think the big IC is fine with the rad and condenser in the sandwich, IF you have some holes in the hood. In my case I believe that's inevitable. It's just too hot under the hood for me to feel comfortable. My guess is these tubular 16ga manifolds emit a tremendous amount of heat. My oil cooler position was a total failure - actually raising temps by 30f. Still working on that solution. - rob
My new IC cut my air temps in half. It also cut the time it took to get to the fan ON temp when stopping at a traffic light - and double the amount of time the fan was on when in stop-n-go traffic. Though the fan managed all this on 90f day- it was overcast. I think the big IC is fine with the rad and condenser in the sandwich, IF you have some holes in the hood. In my case I believe that's inevitable. It's just too hot under the hood for me to feel comfortable. My guess is these tubular 16ga manifolds emit a tremendous amount of heat. My oil cooler position was a total failure - actually raising temps by 30f. Still working on that solution. - rob
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07-24-2007, 12:40 PM
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Even at low speeds the Ben Vent seems to drop coolant temps 2-3°C. I am a bit disturbed how hot the crossover pipe and the air coming out of the bov is. After driving for 10 minutes then sitting for 5 minutes the IAT is still around 50°C. That is with the hood open and the fans on. I'm beginning to wonder how much a water cooled chra reduces IAT's.
On the list of things to do someday is a spray bar in front of the radiator using the washer bottle/pump. Maybe spray the hot side of the turbo and use the steam to drive something.
Sidenotes:
Cheap eBay bov aluminum flanges are not made of NASA quality material. Pot metal is hard (for me) to weld. So before someone points it out, the bov flange is mechanically attached on the outside with a couple of very ugly porous blobs and sealed up with a slightly better weld inside.
The eBay intercooler piping worked well. Decent quality, welds fine. Lots of 2mm thick straight, 45°, 90° pipe, straight and 90° couplers and T-bolt clamps all in one box. Power Seller just-intercoolers. http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZjus...coolersQQhtZ-1
On the list of things to do someday is a spray bar in front of the radiator using the washer bottle/pump. Maybe spray the hot side of the turbo and use the steam to drive something.
Sidenotes:
Cheap eBay bov aluminum flanges are not made of NASA quality material. Pot metal is hard (for me) to weld. So before someone points it out, the bov flange is mechanically attached on the outside with a couple of very ugly porous blobs and sealed up with a slightly better weld inside.
The eBay intercooler piping worked well. Decent quality, welds fine. Lots of 2mm thick straight, 45°, 90° pipe, straight and 90° couplers and T-bolt clamps all in one box. Power Seller just-intercoolers. http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZjus...coolersQQhtZ-1
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07-24-2007, 12:59 PM
#17
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water cooled turbo just opens a whole other can of worms. that heat goes somewhere, the radiator. I highly doubt I would be able to run my stock 91 m/t radiator with a water cooled turbo.
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07-24-2007, 06:46 PM
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Joe Perez has, IMO, the best idea for this. Go to the hardware store and buy 8 feet of garden hose. Use that garden hose to mock up your oil lines. Then measure how much garden hose it took.
B
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