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Old 12-30-2015, 10:27 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by patsmx5 View Post
You and others said before, there was something wrong with my setup. I've found a few things since then and made it a lot better with yours and others advice. You and I both know that a header and cams would both drop the boost, and up the power. You personally know how much that helps because you've done it.

I 100% plan to build a new header this winter.

I've talked to Kelford and they won't make a VVT cam for me, only a 99-00 cam for the intake. They also said they were out of blanks until sometime in early 2016. I need to keep looking I suppose and find someone who will make cams that will work on my VVT head.

I can't say if it would make more power at 24 PSI vs 28, but I know that with the two pulleys I have, one gives me 22 PSI @ 8,200, one gives me 28 PSI @ 7,000. Car traps lower ET and higher MPH with the 28 PSI pulley.

I also agree that a pro tuner could tune the car and make more power. Probably a lot more to be honest.

You built your car to race competitively and win on a national level. You need the best tuner, the best engine builder, the best wheels and tires, the best everything to win on that level.

I'm building a car to learn how to build a fast and reliable car myself. I'd rather pay more and go to some classes and learn how to tune it vs pay someone to do it every time I need it tuned. I'm perfectly ok with my car being slower than the fastest race cars, it's to be expected. I want mine to be daily driver reliable and that means it can't be 100% race car too.

Aidian, I'm going to do the air pressure in the bumper test, and then try to install another pipe that's routed somewhere away from the front tire and test it with no air filter as you say. Just to get a baseline no-filter test as you say. Still I'm worried but hopefully I can get the pipe somewhere away from the tire enough to test it safely. I too would like to see the difference that makes.
I think 949 sells a VVT cam with specs hand-grenade close good for your setup. They are a bit less aggressive than mine, but the ramps on mine are for a 10 hour motor...not for a 30,000 mile motor.

I seriously think you could buy those cams and a good header and pick up close to 75hp without changing anything else but the tune.
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Old 12-30-2015, 10:33 PM   #82
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And as I've told you with your header. Anything less than 1 7/8" primaries is too small and get the length of your primaries as close to 16" as you can get them into a 4:1 full merge collector.





That will give you some ideas.....and no. I won't post full pictures of the collector
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Old 12-31-2015, 01:00 AM   #83
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Whatevvs... RB header will still remain as king vs your w/e header

ya know, unless you wanna show us
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Old 12-31-2015, 01:52 AM   #84
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Then minus 100-130whp for the SC drag and that would be 350-380whp. Sounds about right to me.

But what does that have to do with my air filter testing? I do appreciate the people here that posted good info regarding things to test or how to calculate what air filters work. But all the back and fourth that has nothing to do with this is pretty useless.
Dude the point is that its unlikely you are making more than 480whp including the supercharger loss.

You are a way smarter guy than this, just stop and consider how much power at the wheels you could possibly make with your fuel system if you were turbo, then realise its less than Vlads subaru example.

Dann
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Old 12-31-2015, 11:36 AM   #85
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Also, every single test is moot until you somehow get a baseline without a filter. The pipe opening alone could be causing 20kpa of vacuum.
No way that's the case. But I should test to verify.

So I did. And you are right! But I did not measure the pressure in the bumper cover yet, will do that later today.

No air filter:






Worth noting, despite the air pressure in the intake pipe staying "the same" it seems there is more air going in the motor. AFRs went to 12.9, duty cycle to 103.7%

Now what? That's a solid 15% loss in airflow at redline. And it spun 2nd a bit around 5,800 (can see it in log). That was a first!

EDIT: 11.9, not 12.9, can see numbers in log.
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Old 12-31-2015, 11:53 AM   #86
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Old 12-31-2015, 12:23 PM   #87
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Why is your duty cycle going up and your AFRs going lean?? ID1000s can make 850hp on a supercharged engine according to RC's calculator, and probably not at a 13:1 afr.
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Old 12-31-2015, 12:30 PM   #88
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And you are right!
I'm always right

Curly: pat's on e85 so less than that. But still.
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Old 12-31-2015, 12:56 PM   #89
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This was kinda what I was referring to when your chasing 1-2 percentage of potential HP. It lines up with what I've found when comparing filters on a flow bench.

Your Spectre filter beats no filter which is impossible. Testing all filters back to back might give better data for comparison.





EDIT: added a graph for the visual learners


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Old 12-31-2015, 12:58 PM   #90
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Spectre had belmouth intake under the filter. Could that be the difference?

True optimal setup is a velocity stack in the end of an open pipe.
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Old 12-31-2015, 01:17 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aidandj View Post
Spectre had belmouth intake under the filter. Could that be the difference?

True optimal setup is a velocity stack in the end of an open pipe.
it sure doesn't hurt. It could be the difference.
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Old 12-31-2015, 01:48 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyotani View Post
This was kinda what I was referring to when your chasing 1-2 percentage of potential HP. It lines up with what I've found when comparing filters on a flow bench.

Your Spectre filter beats no filter which is impossible. Testing all filters back to back might give better data for comparison.





EDIT: added a graph for the visual learners


Thank you for plotting all of that in a graph!

All the filters were tested back to back. The no filter test was a few days later though.

I think the spectre beating no filter is proof that the inlet shape is affecting the pressure drop.

So here's the big question. What is a cheap/easy way to put a belmouth on a 3" pipe so I can test that theory right now?
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Old 12-31-2015, 01:53 PM   #93
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Why is your duty cycle going up and your AFRs going lean?? ID1000s can make 850hp on a supercharged engine according to RC's calculator, and probably not at a 13:1 afr.
Because I'm on E85, and I'm running 29 PSI boost at 7,500 RPMs on a motor that breaths really well, minus the header and catalytic converter and stock cams. Has ported head/oversize valves/flattop/big blower and all the boost.
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Old 12-31-2015, 02:10 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by patsmx5 View Post
So here's the big question. What is a cheap/easy way to put a belmouth on a 3" pipe so I can test that theory right now?
3D printer... I'll draw and send you a model if you can find someone to print it. It's too cold to run my printer reliably now.
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Old 12-31-2015, 02:13 PM   #95
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I'll print you one from PLA that'll melt and help get you back to atmo in the intake

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Old 12-31-2015, 02:19 PM   #96
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Old 12-31-2015, 03:37 PM   #97
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Most filters beat an open straight cut tube.

But its still.not an issue here.
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Old 12-31-2015, 06:02 PM   #98
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I dont know where all this talk of 850hp comes from, but on e85 id1k's are tapped out just past 400 wheel. Let's say 450 would be the absolute max.

And if pat's claims of 100whp loss to the sc are legit, that means his car will run out of juice at 300-350 wheel...or something like taht
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Old 12-31-2015, 06:05 PM   #99
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+1, or even just do a pull without the filter.
My first and second post in this thread was to get a baseline sans filter...with a bellmouth....just sayin
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Old 12-31-2015, 06:09 PM   #100
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Well I found a plastic drinking cup I had that's about 3" at the bottom, 3.5" at the top, about 8" long. So I cut the bottom off, cleaned up the edge and taped it onto the pipe and tested that.

It helped. Data below. At 6K, almost 4 kPa better vs an open pipe! Better everywhere vs all the other setups tested. So for sure the entry is a problem. I'm kind of surprised how big a difference a 1/2" transition made. Would be nice to test a 3 to 4" or something bigger just to see what affect that has.




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Amsoil Air filter pressure drop tested-Need better air filter-no%2520filter%25203.5%2520to%25203in%2520transition_zpsextuscub.png   Amsoil Air filter pressure drop tested-Need better air filter-p%2520drop%2520numbers%25202_zps3y7c1dpp.png  
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